Improving the steering on my van

[Glider]

Originally Posted by arctictraveller

Most excellent. As far as re-arching, I've already done that once,(in the front) and it lasted a couple years, but they are beginning to sag again which is why I plan to replace them and get rid of the blocks in the rear at the same time. I may pass by there in a few weeks on my way to Moab, so I'll be sure to stop in. As far as a group buy, I'd guess that unless they were the exact same design we wouldn't get too far, but it's worth asking. Did he happen to mention any prices?

Let me know when you are passing through; I'll try to get up there at the same time. I don't have useful information about prices at this point; it generally looked like it was going to be somewhere in the $500 to $1,200 range, depending on lots of currently-open TBDs.

[arctictraveller]

I made it to the alignment shop today, and my caster came in at 2.5deg's on the drivers side and 3 deg's on the passenger. Ball joints, tierod ends, and the steering box all seem to be reasonably tight and toe in is fine. So, I ordered a set of shims and new u-bolts. Once these are in, I hope to have better steering, but the owner of the frame shop said added caster will increase the tendency for front wheel shake over bumps. Since I have none now, I'm not too worried, but if adding caster does cause new problems, it will be simple to remove the shims. By the end of the week, I should know if this fixes my wandering steering.

[ShuttlePilot]

My side hobby with my van since I've owned it has been to improve the handling. I have recently achieved the "like it's on rails" that I've wanted. It's a long story and no one thing was the magic bullet but more all of it was needed. Through it all I have become a proponent of Urethane Spring Bushings. I replaced the classic 1940's vulcanized rubber steel sleeve type Deaver used with Energy Suspension Urethane front and rear. The rears made a big difference. Don't forget the rear axle in the handling equation. Again, these weren't the cure all for handling but were a big part of it. An unexpected side benefit is that a lot less road noise/vibration is transmitted to the body. Perhaps not for your current springs but I would recommend looking into it for your replacements. It was a challange to find the right kits to fit as, you all know, I couldn't just look up SMB 4x4 on their website. At first I was concerned about durability with such a heavy van but after several thousand miles and running the Mojave Road trying to keep up with friends with Jeeps I think they will be fine. Here is a few pics which is mostly entertainment.




BTW I'm running around 3* camber.
Best of luck
-Eric

[shenrie]

^^^ camber or caster?

it would also likely be beneficial to share part numbers with folks interested in doing the same. ive had great luck with poly bushings in our race cars, even our rally car and its subjected to things most cars wont see in their lifetime.

only place i dont like poly bushings is in engine and torque mounts and there are some places where they differ too much from oem to keep cars handling properly. in other words, they restrict movement. looking through the kits, i see no such issue with vans though. they are all pretty basic.

[ShuttlePilot]

Thanks for pointing that out ^ ^ ^. I meant 3* of caster. Camber is what ever the stock dynatrak axle is and I've been running near 0* toe.

As far as part numbers I'm apprehensive to say x kit will fit as I can only vouch for my combination of spring, van year, etc. When I tried to pull this off I measured the spring eyes, metal sleeves, bolts, everything and called Energy Suspension looking for a recommendation. BUT, The guy said they will only support a vehicle they have tested for fit and safety and would not give out any information. Seemed harsh but I was able to find some cross reference measurements on their site, make some assumptions and ended up getting lucky. So here is what I used.
My van is a 2005 Ford E350 RB SMB conversion with Deaver springs installed in 2010. Stock SMB front sway bar, Deaver Panhard bar, no rear sway bar or panhard.

Rear Spring - Rear Leaf Spring Bushings - Ford E350 Super Duty
Fortunately Deaver used all Stock dimensions on their spring and a stock shackle. This kit fit with no changes.

Front Spring - Rear Leaf Spring Bushings - Ford F350 - 4.2114
This kit had the bushings for the front spring eyes but the third bush included in the kit dosen't fit anything on my van so, set asside. Then used kit
Front Leaf Spring Shackle Bushings - Ford F250 for where the shackle pivots in the frame. This kit is just a pair so everything is used.

Sway Bar Front - Energy Suspension 9.5173 - Universal - Greaseable Sway Bar Bushings - 35mm (1.37 inch). Energy Suspension ENE-9.5173G
These ended up a little shorter (bar was real close to frame) than the originals so a 1/2" plate was used as a spacer. Sway bar locks to prevent the side to side movement - DST DLL135 - Front Sway Bar Lateral Lock - 35-36mm. DST

Front End Links - I found some universal Urethane bushings locally and turned them down in the lathe to fit into the stock SMB end links and sleeves.

So with all this plus, dynatrak ball joints, new dynatrak tie rod with ball joints(the original was bent in a hoop by the first owner), new steering drop link, Napa steering box, it finally drives like it should IMO.
I hope this may help but again not sure about fit on other vans.
-Eric

[arctictraveller]

Originally Posted by ShuttlePilot

I hope this may help but again not sure about fit on other vans. Eric

Thanks Eric, that was a great help. You reminded me that I need to look at all the bushings. If I'm getting new springs, I can spec out urethane bushings, but I hate to put money into old springs, I had forgotten about how important they are. At a minimum, I need to look at my current ones. Fortunately, adding some shims is pretty cheap, so if it's not a big help I haven't lost much. Thanks again, hopefully I'll get there, or at least to a place I'm comfortable with.

[Glider]

I stopped by Right Way Spring Company today and had a long conversation with Brett, the owner. My sense is that he is probably not the best person to do a rear suspension upgrade for our type of van. His shop focuses on work trucks, which have different requirements. He probably does a good job on those trucks, but I did not see evidence that Brett was interested in, or able to think through useful and appropriate approaches to the somewhat different needs of a 4x4 SMB.

He offered me two options:
1. Install a set of Deaver springs for $1,600 for the springs, and $350 for installation.

2. Remove the lift blocks under my existing springs, re-arch those springs, add an additional full-length leaf, and add a secondary spring pack below the main spring pack to provide additional support under heavier loads. This would be about an $1,100 job.

If I were under the impression that he was thinking clearly about how to make my van work well, I would consider having him do the second option. But my sense is that he was just pulling out some ideas from his existing bag of tricks without thinking the whole thing through. Maybe it would turn out great; maybe it wouldn't. I don't know enough about suspension to evaluate that. But I do know enough about human beings and mechanical objects to know when someone is thinking things through carefully, and when they are shooting from the hip. I think this one is more of a hip shot--and I'm not inclined to throw a McKinley at a hip shot.

Back to research. Still looking for a good rear suspension solution for my rig.

[mgmetalworks]

Originally Posted by Glider

I stopped by Right Way Spring Company today and had a long conversation with Brett, the owner. My sense is that he is probably not the best person to do a rear suspension upgrade for our type of van. His shop focuses on work trucks, which have different requirements. He probably does a good job on those trucks, but I did not see evidence that Brett was interested in, or able to think through useful and appropriate approaches to the somewhat different needs of a 4x4 SMB.

He offered me two options:
1. Install a set of Deaver springs for $1,600 for the springs, and $350 for installation.

2. Remove the lift blocks under my existing springs, re-arch those springs, add an additional full-length leaf, and add a secondary spring pack below the main spring pack to provide additional support under heavier loads. This would be about an $1,100 job.

If I were under the impression that he was thinking clearly about how to make my van work well, I would consider having him do the second option. But my sense is that he was just pulling out some ideas from his existing bag of tricks without thinking the whole thing through. Maybe it would turn out great; maybe it wouldn't. I don't know enough about suspension to evaluate that. But I do know enough about human beings and mechanical objects to know when someone is thinking things through carefully, and when they are shooting from the hip. I think this one is more of a hip shot--and I'm not inclined to throw a McKinley at a hip shot.

Back to research. Still looking for a good rear suspension solution for my rig.

Back when I got my van, Quadvan offered custom rear springs as an option (working through Oregon Auto Spring). Are they not offering that anymore?

[Glider]

Originally Posted by mgmetalworks

Back when I got my van, Quadvan offered custom rear springs as an option (working through Oregon Auto Spring). Are they not offering that anymore?

Good question. I don't know, but I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by mgmetalworks

Back when I got my van, Quadvan offered custom rear springs as an option (working through Oregon Auto Spring). Are they not offering that anymore?

Interesting. It turns out that Oregon Auto Spring has two shops--one in Portland, and one in Tacoma. The Tacoma location is Right Way Spring Company. That explains a couple of things. When I was talking to Brett, he called his "other shop." That must have been OAS. If I decided to go for the Deaver springs, the "other shop" would have built them. So. Brett is associated with folks who have experience doing rear springs for vans, but he does not have the experience himself. I am going to contact OAS directly, and see what they have to say.