Local Leaf Spring Work and a Q about Full and Partial Wrap

[deminimis]

Jage, I saw you mentioned the pushing issue before. However, suspension modifiers want to know, what's actually going on when you say "push"? Whatever it is, do you believe the rear is too stiff? Sorry you're not doing backflips of joy over the swap given the cost and time investment.

[jage]

Yeah I hoping they will settle and be amazing.

I've actually had the same thing happen to my F250. I think that it can be reproduced by having too little tongue weight- the trailer (loaded) rotates on the wheels and instead of being led by the ball the tongue shoves the ball to the side. The force is great enough to "push" the front tires off track (overcoming the camber or whatever) and suddenly instead of straight your front is headed into another lane or opposing traffic.

With the Deavers this happens both unloaded and when flat-towing. I believe unloaded is wind force on the back side and with the Jeep the tow bar translating through the hitch. The result is the same, although worse than the towing scenerio above, and worse yet when flat towing.

Setting the ranchos to 9 in the back and 7 in the front has helped. I'm probably going to go with 9 and 9 next time (as 9r and 7f was better than 9r and 5f) Driving with the rear at 7 is good if it's not windy, but you never know when a gust is coming.

The comparison to "stock" was that my SMB springs were bottomed out on the overload leaf. In hillbilly conjecture terms I'm equating this to an artificial tongue load. Wind was no worse than in any vehicle and flat towing the Jeep the most dangerous part was forgetting it was behind and then freaking out over the rear view mirror.

The upside of the Deavers- to complete the rambling thread jack that should probably be in my own Deaver thread- is that every other aspect is better. I can take a rough on ramp at speed and the tires don't skip, it handles great in all situations except as noted above, the dreaded bone jarring suspension slam is gone (the front still goes sickeningly up and down but the ride is smooth).

So 97% of my driving is way better and I've stopped getting physically hurt on railroad tracks and breaks in the pavement- however that other 3% is so scary that driving is now a chore requiring constant vigilance.

[BroncoHauler]

Jage,

I can't recall, but did you swap out your shocks when you went to the Deavers? If not, do you think your shocks might be acting as limiting-straps, and thereby unloading the rear end?


Herb

[Skywagon]

Jage-
The condition you refer to as "push" could, if the van doesn't want to steer in the direction you want to go, be described as understeer. The cause could be any number of things, but two major contributions could be excessive weight on the rear axle and top-heavyness. Other factors that could affect handling are the stiffness of front/rear sway bars (more properly called anti-sway bars). Tire pressure front to back can make a huge difference as well. In Formula Ford race cars, we made tire pressure adjustments in 1/2 lb. increments. Do you have a rear anti-sway bar? Part of the handling quirks of these vans is the fact that virtually all the weight is in the ends of the vehicle and polar moment of inertia takes over. Bodies set in motion tend to stay in motion... etc. I guess after all this what I'm trying to say is, compared to what most people are used to driving, these things handle like crap.
Bill

[jage]

Well I'm used to lifted, large tire Jeeps with no sway bars... kind of like sitting on a tall box of springs, so the van handles pretty good compared to what I usually drive.

Post spring install I've done a few things, each of them has helped:
Aired up the BFGs to max pressure (within 1/2 lb)
Installed Rancho 9000s (5-5)
Turned up the Ranchos (5-7)
Turned up the Ranchos more (7-9)
Driven the van (spring break in)

I am hoping the last one will continue to help, but with the price of gas I'm just having a hard time putting miles on for the sake of putting miles on.

[deminimis]

Thanks Jage. Weird. Even when towing a horse and trailer (without trailer brakes working properly ), I noticed only minor pushing when stopping, but the works always stayed in-line. Well, I'll update the masses when I get my springs re-worked in a couple of days.

[deminimis]

Well, took my SMB to Benz Spring in Portland (they have a website if interested but never respond to e-mails). For $866 I got the springs re-curved/rebuilt, two leaves added to the rears (didn't measure prior, but looks to be about 3" of lift because the rears were sagging so bad), one leaf added to fronts, replaced the "screwy" front bushings, replaced the "poor" rear shackles, all new "U " bolts, all installed, yada yada. I have not replaced my 90k-mile Ranchos, but even so, the van is now a one-hand steering operation when going down the road instead of two. Great test is I-84 leaving Portland as the road is rutted up significantly due to all the semis. Van is now level, doesn't bounce all over like a dingy in the high seas, and I'm very, very happy with the results. I did have sense enough to weigh my SMB before going in. With only me and a full tank, it came in at 9800. Add a wife, a pair of little devil children, gear, and its well over the 10k mark. To recap, approx 1" lift in front, 3" rear, 7 rear leaves total, 6 front leaves total. The added leaves have the same thickness of the others. Have to pull the steering wheel and align it as it is kiddywampose now. Jim Sr. (if William Macey and Garrison Keillor had a kid, it might reasonably resemble/sound like Jim) talked me out of going with the full military wrap. His reasoning was it costs more, and won't do a thing for me unless the springs break. Since they've been around since 1922 or something like that, decided to defer to his opinion. All-in-all, they thought the SMB conversion (suspension) was nice and clean. Whether your SMB springs are in good shape or not, you might have those front bushings checked out as well as the rear shackles, as those were two areas that had them concerned.

[John Kalmbach]

Do not attempt to remove the steering wheel, the airbag could deploy and hurt or kill you!

It is very easy to adjust the steering wheel. Simply loosen the clamps on each end of the steering link (this is the link from the pitman arm to the passenger side steering arm), and twist the steering link. You'll determine which way it needs to turn by watching the steering wheel (ignition key at "on" position). Small adjustments make a big difference, so adjust a little at a time. Tighten the clamps when done.

This adjustment will not effect the alignment at all.

Good luck!
John K.

[deminimis]

The steering wheel on my Ford can only go on one way (can't adjust at the wheel). Made steering wheel adjustment like by adjusting the rod, as John suggested. However, had a noise in the steering, so removed the wheel anyway to check the clock spring. Carefully removed the airbag from behind and unplugged it before attacking the wheel. Sure enough, the clock spring plate had come loose (snaps). Buttoned it all up and no more noise when turning the wheel.

Check my spanky new ride height!