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Old 03-08-2020, 08:48 AM   #1
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New Van (to me) - 4X4 question

Hey all, just bought and drove a 2005 Quigley SB w/5.4with SMB PH back from Wisconsin to Montana where I live. The van has 49,000 miles on it, I suppose the Quigley 4x4 was put on when new (I'll call Quigley to find out and get a build sheet). The van was garaged for many years and not driven but a couple thousand miles in the past 6 years until I jumped in her and drove it to Bozeman yesterday.
My observations: Granted I have been driving a 2012 F-250 w/6.7 diesel.
To be very kind... the front end was HORRIBLE. Tires are good BFG Trail T/A's 265/75/16 on stock steel rims. Granted the steering stabilizer was visibly shot with leaking and pitting on the piston rod. Presumably the shocks are shot from sitting and age vs. mileage.
I drove about 50 miles on the HWY 90 on clear winter roads and looked at my brother sitting next to me and said "I'm selling this thing as soon as I get to Bozeman" We laughed on and off all the way to his house in the Black Hills about the noise and ride of the rig. Actually kinda funny.
I really had my heart set on moving from a F-250/FWC (lHawk) to a van for the following reasons;
-Wife could crawl in back during long drives to lay down, make a sandwich etc.
-No up three steps and duck to get in the camper and reverse of that backward to get out. More room when both of us are in the camper.
-Being able to have my dirtbike on a versa-haul and still be able to get in the camper easily, or our raft trailer.

But after driving it and doing some research here I'm concerned that this may not be the right vehicle for us to begin a build out of an otherwise shell panel van.

To begin I'd say with the Quigley it's as high off the ground (as high or higher than my stock F-250 with 285/75/17's), and any higher with a RIP Kit to get the front axle off the bump stops would only add insult. I think the 265 tires with a RIP may look goofy, like a van on stilts. Upgrading to 275 or 285 tires only raises it more. And given that the 5.4 with the 3:73 axles is maxed out at 2,000 to 2,100 rpm at 70 for torque (I was deep into the pedal in a 30 mph headwind in S.D.) & (8 mpg) it appears I may need 4:10 gears with larger tires. Am I thinking correctly or overthinking the gear change need for going from 265 to 275 or 285?
Looks like a chunk of change to change gearing or axles.
But bottoming out over minor dips in the road was scary and jarring to the spine. Maybe a good set of shocks would do the trick here but I'm thinking the additional 1" of lift with the progressive Agile springs may be necessary.
I know 1Der is a big fan of Agile TTB but $14K is out of the question when I already have the Quigley.
I don't want to go too deeply down the rabbit hole by spending 2k on the rip kit only to find out the van still rides like an old straight truck when I hit expansion joints dead on. The F-250 is ok, we can air down and be happy, but man I'd like to know what to expect before I continue emotionally with this van.
Good news is I bought it right, it is show room perfect, not a single scratch or blemish, and selling it would be presumably quite easy.
Thanks
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Old 03-08-2020, 02:14 PM   #2
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I would get the RIP kit and see how you like it. From all accounts it makes a huge difference. If you decide to sell it, Id imagine that you would get a good return on your RIP investment, especially if the van rides as poorly as you say now.
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Old 03-08-2020, 03:08 PM   #3
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Ya, kinda what I thought. Thanks Brian
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:11 PM   #4
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X2 - You gotta get the some distance under those bump stops. No ifs ands or buts about it. If you don't have enough suspension travel, your tires become the suspension. To make it worse, the factory bumps Quigley left on are designed for IFS which has a different motion ratio about 2-3) so they are too stiff for a solid axle setup.

If you don't plan on towing, you can probably leave the gears alone even with 285 tires. You'll just have love with turning off O/D when you have those headwinds like you just did. Even with re-gearing, you might still have to turn it off anyways, unless you went even deeper than 4.10s. The aero on a 4x4 van is terrible, so if saving fuel is a concern... You just gotta slow down....
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Old 03-08-2020, 06:20 PM   #5
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Thanks for the input Carringb, would you happen to know any names, part number etc for better bump stops? I'm going to PM you with a request.
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Old 03-08-2020, 06:43 PM   #6
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Bump stops

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZEMANGUY View Post
Thanks for the input Carringb, would you happen to know any names, part number etc for better bump stops? I'm going to PM you with a request.
If you find better bump stops, please let me know?
Joe Futrmobl
Thank you.
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:56 AM   #7
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Mine is not a Quigley, but I found my front suspension a little harsh as well. The design is good, but the shop who did the work cut corners.



I diagnosed 3 issues:
1) With only a 4" lift, and the stock Ford 2wd bump stops still in place, I only had 1-1/2" of travel before the Ford bump stops engaged. The 2001 Dana 60 front axle has a landing pad for the oem bump stop, that is pretty high.

2) The shop didn't trim enough of the crossmember away, like they were supposed to. Remove the bumpstop, and the crossmember hit the axle 3rd member.

3) The front shocks would 'top out', giving the van a jolt, as the van's front suspension fully cycled, that is, compressed, then rebounded, while towing my big trailer. The front shocks would hit their internal travel limiters at full extension, when the front pitched upward, on it's way to settling down. The previous owner bought the 4" lift kit, which uses the factory upper shock location and real short aftermarket shock.


I completely re-did all this things, and posted up a pretty detail ed write up 4yrs ago
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carringb View Post
X2 -

If you don't plan on towing, you can probably leave the gears alone even with 285 tires. You'll just have love with turning off O/D when you have those headwinds like you just did. Even with re-gearing, you might still have to turn it off anyways, unless you went even deeper than 4.10s. The aero on a 4x4 van is terrible, so if saving fuel is a concern... You just gotta slow down....
Slowing down hasn't worked for me!

My 2007 Quigley (which by the way has not had any suspension problems and has about 2-1/2" between the axle and the bumpstops, same as any stock Ford pickup) has the V10 and came with 3.73 gears. It shifted out of OD every time it came to any kind of an incline, and fuel mileage averaged 12 mpg. So I had it regeared to 4.56. That helped the shifting down on hills a lot...but did nothing for fuel mileage. I still get 12 mpg overall (actually 11.8; all fuel purchases go into an Excel spreadsheet which calculates the mileage). And it doesn't matter whether I'm driving 70 on my way to Utah, or 45 down the dirt roads here in Nevada. Mileage stays the same. I've never understood why.

But without a doubt the gearing change was the best thing I did for this van.
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Old 03-10-2020, 12:35 PM   #9
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Sumo makes a front jounce stop for SMB now. I suspect this would be a good upgrade for any Quigley as well. For a rig that stays mostly on the highway, if might even make things tolerable enough to skip the coil upgrade. They'll probably end up being fully engaged, which is fine, as these are self-damping and have a nice progressive feel to them.

https://www.supersprings.com/shop/ssf-122-40/

Instructions: https://www.supersprings.com/instruc...SSF-122-40.pdf

Are for the steering issues... Definitely replace the bad steering damper. And find a shop that can max out caster. Shoot for 5 degrees. Some year Quigleys were setup for zero caster, and to get it higher you have to upgrade to adjustable trailing arms (Quiqley calls them Torque Tubes). And on that note, your van I think was part of the generation whose those Torque Tubes had cracking problems. So they might need replacement anyways.
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:25 PM   #10
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I received the build sheet and my castor is 5.6 degrees front left and 5.9 degrees front right, so they are up in that range you mentioned. That's good. The "Torque Tubes" are the newer style round tube vs the old "U" channel. I'll look into the progressive bump stops as well. The Quigley 4x4 was done when the van was pre-delivered. So it's an 05 van and an 05/05/05 Quigley build. Thanks again
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