Quigley and QuadVan - FOX Shox Ride Improvement Package

[schluchtenflitzer]

I try to contact rasey since 2 weeks via mail and pm....no answer yet. Does anyone here knows the progress in this projekt?
I will buy a set!

[BajaSportsmobile]

I received your contact. In fact I have received 30 or more and we have installed a dozen or so as well as shipped out shocks. It has been very difficult to handle all of the requests and inquiries and keep up with my regular day to day business. Add to that the problems I have had in getting sufficient inventory from suppliers and this little Hobby Business has been challenging at best.

I will be getting back to everyone, I just ask for your patients, and apologize for the delays.

We have also converted two more vans to 4X4 in the last few weeks - it has been busy!

Originally Posted by schluchtenflitzer

I try to contact rasey since 2 weeks via mail and pm....no answer yet. Does anyone here knows the progress in this projekt?
I will buy a set!

[derJack]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

I received your contact. In fact I have received 30 or more and we have installed a dozen or so as well as shipped out shocks. It has been very difficult to handle all of the requests and inquiries and keep up with my regular day to day business. Add to that the problems I have had in getting sufficient inventory from suppliers and this little Hobby Business has been challenging at best.

I will be getting back to everyone, I just ask for your patients, and apologize for the delays.

We have also converted two more vans to 4X4 in the last few weeks - it has been busy!

Good to hear, I got already double that patience . eventually we can make one package to GER, depending on delivery.

[schluchtenflitzer]

Ok thanks for the fast answer.
As i am in holiday for the next few weeks i sent you an pm with my privat mailadress ;-)
Dietmar

[Ocsmb]

Let's see pics of the 4x 4 conversion

[maxacceleration]

EDIT!: I'll start with an edit as it looks like Bsmb's RIP kit IS NOT TTB. Correct?
So I guess my response below only applies to the long travel TTB kit he offers.
I will certainly edit out if needed...


TTB?
Now I can see how it could have better travel than a stock Quadvan, which as you say hits the bump stop all to quick.
But (pardon my directness)... TTB is 80's technology in suspension.
I've had enough of Explorer & BII TTB over the years. They float or swim more than a solid axle, and... You end up with A LOT of negative camber at full compression and A LOT of positive camber at full extension. And stability issues crawling slow, potentially. The wheel arcs too much in its travel.
Take that slow off camber left hand corner and your right wheel drops down into a hole a you have a lot of positive camber with that right wheel, and you have the potential for that tire to tuck under.
You need a longer than stock radius arms for good geometry on TTB, AND a cut & turn too IIRC.
Tires tend to wear on the outside OR the suspension collapses to cause wear on the insides.
TTB Yuk!

Now if you want to haul butt across the bumps in your Quad or Quig w/ttb and beat the f' out of it, go for it!
With 8500 lbs?!?

Trailing arms on straight axles are more stable than TTB, IMO.

No temptation here. Been there done that.

My BII w/Explorer running gear D35/8.8 & Superlift extended radius arms...



This is how a TTB looks extended...

[E350]

Hey Max: That's my Bronco! ^^

(Except that that Bronco is white and mine is EB green, and that's not me driving.)

So, I too had some questions about sticking a TTB suspension under (what in my case is a 7.3L) van, but Baja explained to me why I was mistaken and proof seems to be in his pudding.

However, I am very interested in his response.

[SilverForkPhil]

Thanks Ramsey, for the fantastic improvement on my 2008 Quigley conversion you did last month! I've been meaning to post here, but haven't had a chance. As others have posted, the new shocks and upgraded springs have made a big difference - the van settles down QUICKLY after bumps, potholes and other road undulations. I haven't had a chance to take it off-road yet, but my ride back to Utah from San Diego was way smoother than the trip down. My driving around town and in my snow-covered neighborhood is a real pleasure compared to the old ride. Very worthwhile investment and I'd recommend it to anyone. Thanks again!

Phil

[BajaSportsmobile]

Great point of discussion, thanks for asking.

First our Quigley and QuadVan Ride Improvement Package is a Spring and FOX shock package designed to fix the poor ride quality of many of these conversions. I've been tuning shocks and suspensions for 25 years of successful desert racing. When I started hearing all the complaints about the ride of the Quigleys and took a look at one, I knew it was a simple matter of getting the right setup, as the basic design of both of these conversions is very straight forward. You cannot buy a shock off the shelf from any of the manufacturers that has the right valving in my opinion. I open up a new FOX shock that has the correct extended and compressed lengths, arrived at after extensive cycling and measuring, and re-valve them to my satisfaction, again developed after extensive testing and adjusting.

We have installed a bunch of these RIP's and everyone has been very happy with the transformation. You can read many of their comments here on this thread or at AgileOffRoad.com.

We have also developed FOX shock applications for 2wd E Series vans and Ambulances, with great success.

[BajaSportsmobile]

You are correct, Ford's Dana 44 and Dana 50 Twin-Traction Beam front suspension is 80's technology - it was used in Ford F150, F250, F350, Fullsize Broncos from 1980 through 1997, 17 years and several million built.

Of course the straight tube front axle with single radius arm per side used in your QuadVan is even older school, 60's technology. Early Broncos starting in 1966 had the same basic design through 1979 when they updated to TTB. F150 of the same vintage also used the same design.

Even older school is the leaf sprung straight tube front axle.

Really, the only innovative design under our vans is the coil sprung straight tube axle with modified 5-link that Quigley uses, much like Dodge and Jeep.

All of these designs have their advantages and disadvantages.

TTB isn't for everyone, but it has proven to be the best 4X4 design in desert racing many times over. That is because it is very robust, independent, compliant and long travel.

Let me address some of your points:

Originally Posted by maxacceleration

TTB? Now I can see how it could have better travel than a stock Quadvan, which as you say hits the bump stop all to quick.

Yes you can, and at a lower ride height which means a lower center of gravity, easier entry and exit, and actually higher ground clearance under the front axle, rear axle is obviously the same. TTB can be high if that is what you are in to; if you want a higher break over angle you will have to lift it, but that has never been a problem with my E350 EB and I use it harder than most ever will. TTB has more bump travel because of the arc the wheel travels allowing the wheel to travel higher in the wheel well. You can see this in the slow motion video on our website.

Originally Posted by maxacceleration

They float or swim more than a solid axle, Trailing arms on straight axles are more stable than TTB, IMO.

I've driven a lot of different 4X4 vans over the last several months and I can say ours is as stable as any I have driven and much better than most. One thing that is different is that the suspension on our van is moving, it is a much softer ride, and does not have the stiff ride that some might call "stable".

Originally Posted by maxacceleration

You end up with A LOT of negative camber at full compression and A LOT of positive camber at full extension. And stability issues crawling slow, potentially. The wheel arcs too much in its travel.
Take that slow off camber left hand corner and your right wheel drops down into a hole a you have a lot of positive camber with that right wheel, and you have the potential for that tire to tuck under.

It is true that it does have a camber curve that a straight axle does not, but that has never presented a problem and at times is an advantage. Crawling slow, it is actually and advantage. Because the two Traction Beams function independently, the travel of one has little effect on the other. When "your right wheel drops down into a hole" it does so on its own and the chassis is less affected and the other wheel does not change. On your straight axle with its limited travel, when "your right wheel drops down into a hole" the whole van leans into that hole and the left wheel is also effected. There is no "potential for that tire to tuck under" because it is limited in its droop.

Last weekend, I was being followed by a QuadVan in some steep and tight switchbacks on the side of a mountain, you can see it pick up a front tire where ours had no articulation issues.

Originally Posted by maxacceleration

You need a longer than stock radius arms for good geometry on TTB

We make custom tubular radius arms that are 10" longer for a better caster curve with the long travel - the exact same thing applies to the QuadVan design, if you could get more travel you would have more caster change.

Originally Posted by maxacceleration

Now if you want to haul butt across the bumps... w/ttb and beat the f' out of it, go for it!
With 8500 lbs?!?

That is the nice thing about it, you don't "beat the f' out of it" with all that travel and you can go fast if you want to or need to. We drive hundreds of miles on dirt "roads" in Baja in a day to get to our favorite places - if I had to do it at a bone jarring 25 mph, well...

TTB isn't for everyone, but it will do what ever your's will do - and a whole lot more.

By the way, if I were going to buy someone else's conversion, it would be a QuadVan - same front suspension as my F250 SuperDuty.

We install F250/350 front axles in vans as well.