Lithium Build Parts/Makes List

[Backcountryguy]

This seems like a great way to monitor your very expensive Lithionics battery! From the Lithionics Battery site.

Wireless TELEMETRY: We now offer a Bluetooth Serial Connection that can be combined with an Android Smartphone App that when coupled with our DB9 State of Charge System allows you to wirelessly monitor all critical battery functions on your Android Smartphone. This feature can be added for $315.15 USD.

[TomH]

Originally Posted by Backcountryguy

This seems like a great way to monitor your very expensive Lithionics battery! From the Lithionics Battery site.

Wireless TELEMETRY: We now offer a Bluetooth Serial Connection that can be combined with an Android Smartphone App that when coupled with our DB9 State of Charge System allows you to wirelessly monitor all critical battery functions on your Android Smartphone. This feature can be added for $315.15 USD.

Hmmm, Since the nav system SMB promotes uses Apple Car Play and interfaces with an iPhone, I wonder if there is a compatible iPhone app.

[Backcountryguy]

I received this great reply on Lithionics. Some is redundant but still more information is better for the decision making process.


"Hello Alex,

Thank you for your inquiry. Sounds like an exciting project for you and one which we are very familiar as we have about 5 customers currently looking at equipping their Sprinters with Lithionics lithium-ion battery systems.

Lithionics is the industry safety leader - all of the batteries are UN DOT 38.3 approved and have multiple safety features built-in including STOBA technology, super safe chemistry and an industry leading robust and simple BMS.

In most applications I recommend the more economical Standard Series batteries as they cost about 30% less per Amp hour of capacity versus the GT Series batteries. In a single 8D battery we go up to 450 Amp hours in the Standard Series and 600 Amp hours in the GT Series. We see customers adding anywhere from 200 Amp hours to 800 Amp hours capacity in these trucks so either the 450 or 600 Amp hour ones may be a good place to start.

I am happy to hear that you have a second 260 Amp alternator. Based on this spec and the 3kW inverter the Lithionics NeverDie BMS rated at 400 Amps will serve you well and will allow you to add some additional circuits in the future if you need to. As for the alternator's regulator, we recommend the Balmar MC-614 external Voltage regulator but you will want to check with the truck builder if the second alternator is designed for use with an external regulator. We can provide this Balmar regulator or you can source it locally. I attach for your reference the instruction sheet for this. This regulator kit also allows us to tie in/ connect the Lithionics Field Control Circuit (FCC) option that tells the alternator when to stop producing current when the battery is full. In addition, we can also supply purpose built high output lithium-ion alternators if you have not already purchased one.

With regards to the battery itself, both the 450 and 600 Amp hour 8D's measure 23" long x 13" wide. We can make the 450 Ahr model 13.5" tall including terminals but the GT 600 Ahr battery will be 15" tall including terminals. When considering a single battery solution, it is more economical to have the BMS built-in with the battery. There are what we call Field Service Adavantages to using an external BMS box if you want to go that route but the external box adds a few hundred dollars to the system cost.

Here are the spec sheets for both batteries with the 400 Amp BMS built-in:

The above battery sells for $6,758.21 USD.


The above battery sells for $9,474.42 USD.

Options/ Extras:

• Alternator Field Control Circuit (FCC) - this option adds $125.42 USD.
  
• Lithionics State of Charge Monitoring Kit - most RV and boat owners opt for this option so that they always know how many Amp hours capacity are left, what their Amp usage is and so on. We offer a 2 1/16" round or small recatngular digital display gauge that has 2 lines of readout that you can toggle through to show the Voltage, a graphical fuel meter and more. The sending unit for this is built into either the battery or an external BMS box and then the gauge quickly/ easily connects to wherever you want to mount it with a 16 foot CAT5 Ethernet cable. Extension CAT5 Ethernet cables are also available. The 400 Amp rated version with the round display guage sells for $824.04 USD.
• As for the Bluetooth wireless reporting option to your Smartphone, this feature is temporarily unavailable for the version 7 Lithionics NeverDie Battery Management System/ State of Charge Monitoring kits. Lithionics is presently working on UL testing of their latest BMS and this option will eb available for future BMS releases as there are a lot of Customers similar to yourself with Sprinter conversions asking for this. I apologize for the temporary unavailabu=ility of this option.
  
• It is highly recommended that you also have one of the affordable Lithionics smart lithium-ion chargers. The 12 Volt Lithionics KF12V 5A charger sells for $157.05 USD and the 20 Amp version sells for $294.07 USD (outputs 20 Amps and has an easy to read LED display). These chargers are good to have on hand for periodic optimal recharging and they have a special pulse signal that can bypass the BMS to often revive an accidentally overdischarged battery. We also offer higher output chargers for faster recharging.
  
• If you go with the Magnum inverter-charger, try to make sure that it comes with the ME-RC50 remote display/ programming option so that we can customize the charge settings. We can give you instructions how to program these units.
  
• If you plan on connecting solar, you will want to make sure that you use a good quality MPPT solar charge controller. Lithionics has worked with and tested controllers by OutBack, Blue Sky, Midnite Solar and several other leading makes. We also supply RV and Marine customers with a good variety of complete solar panel systems including the ultra thin semi-flexible solar panels by Solbian and Go Power. More information on our solar products is located on our web page at: http://getlithium.com/Off_Grid_solar_power_page.html
  
• Also, if using solar, many of our customers opt for Lithionics "Dual Channel BMS". This is available for external BMS boxes and basically it splits the charging and discharging functions into 2 separate circuits on the BMS. Solar panel systems can sometimes create Voltage spikes which can trip the BMS but with a dual channel BMS if this is to occur, the power to all your loads will still remain on. Similarly, if a short circuit developed somehow on your loads, the BMS would trip the load side of the BMS but still permit charging. The dual channel option adds $504.87 USD to the price of an external BMS box. Here is a photo of one of these:
  
  However, the dual channel BMS is not mandatory and it is more marine customers that opt for this due to the higher needs for safety and electrical system operation on the water.
• We can provide just about anything else that you may need including the recommended ANL fuses and fuse holders that connect the BMS and battery to your system.

I am also attaching the Lithionics Master Catalog PDF for your reference. It shows most of the GT and Standard Series batteries available as well as the various battery case sizes which is very helpful as one of the first things we need to assess is where you want to place the battery and how much space you have there.

As for ordering, I just checked with Lithionics and they are able to complete some smaller orders by the end of August. The normal lead-time is about 4 weeks. In addition, we can ship direct from the Lithionics Florida factory to you or to Sportsmobile. There are No Sales Taxes for our USA Customers.

I hope that this information is helpful and I look forward to your follow up and any questions that you may have.


Best Regards,

David Flather
Pinnacle Innovations
Email: siteinfo@shaw.ca
Office Phone: 778-340-0060"

[TomH]

Originally Posted by Backcountryguy

...we can also supply purpose built high output lithium-ion alternators if you have not already purchased one....

This, I want to know more about.

[Backcountryguy]

I saw that on the alternator and immediately zeroed in on that! I've already sent a inquiry back on the alternator. I'd much prefer to single source everything needed for the lithium build as it seems the integration of all would be seamless.

I've also sent all the information I have to Brian at SMB Fresno for his files as well. I have a visit scheduled at SMB Fresno on Sep 6th to get our build off the ground and at that time I'll be defining the lithium system. I'll send a detailed parts list after I leave the factory on what was decided.

[TomH]

Great! I also sent an inquiry re. the alternator and need to set up a build review meeting with Brian soon as well. Please tell him I am following your build and will likely do much of the same as you.

[Backcountryguy]

TomH, will do. This forum is a great information sharing tool! I've learned so much in my brief time here.

Given the cost of these batteries I am going to incorporate every safety feature, monitoring, and check that is possible to purchase.

I also asked David at Pinnacle is thoughts on either one 600 Ah battery or two 300-330 Ah batteries. I would like to have 600 Ah as my parameter.

[TheWooginator]

Originally Posted by Backcountryguy

Here are the spec sheets for both batteries with the 400 Amp BMS built-in:

The above battery sells for $6,758.21 USD.


The above battery sells for $9,474.42 USD.

Good god....

I'm really interested in a Lithium setup for all of the obvious performance reasons but holy smokes that's steep.

I'm keeping tabs on this discussion regardless in case some more budget friendly options turn up.

[Backcountryguy]

Hello again Alex,

Thank you for your emails.

I was speaking with Lithionics earlier today and they have just released 2 new battery models that may be worth considering. These are the new generation of Lithionics GT Series batteries in either 150 or 300 Amp hours capacity and apart from being very well priced, these batteries can also be mounted on their side which reduces the height requirement/ makes them easier to fit in van conversions.

Here is the latest information on these 2 new battery models:

Capacity: 150 Amp hours
Dimensions: 15" x 8" x 14.04" overall height including terminals
Weight: 43 pounds
Price with BMS: $2,718.59 USD
Price without BMS:$2,428.17 USD
NOTE: This new model is priced almost $600 lower than the regular GT 150Ahr battery.



Capacity: 300 Amp hours
Dimensions: 24" x 8" x 14.0" overall height including terminals
Weight: 87 pounds
Price with BMS: $4,136.60 USD
Price without BMS:$3,556.82 USD
NOTE: This new model is priced almost $1500 lower than the regular GT 300Ahr battery and over $1000 less than the Standard Series 330Ahr battery.

So when you have a moment, why don't you check the dimensions of these 2 new batteries to see if you can fit four of the 150Ahr batteries or two of the 300Ahr batteries.


Also, with respect to an alternator upgrade, I am sure that you would be OK with a Nations alternator as Lithionics supplies many Nations customers with the Lithionics batteries. What we want to make sure of in an aftermarket alternator is that it is capable of charging from 14.0 to 14.6 Volts DC (if this is the case an external regulator should not be needed). Another US firm that makes high quality high output alternators is American Power Systems: https://www.americanpowerinc.com/. My suggestion is that if the builder has worked with Nations products before then it is probably best to stick with that choice. Our goal is not to complicate things more than needed.

I hope this information is helpful and I look forward to your follow up.


Best Regards,

David Flather
Pinnacle Innovations
Email: siteinfo@shaw.ca
Office Phone: 778-340-0060

Canadian Distributor and International Sales - Lithionics Battery
"High Performance, Super Light Lithium-ion Batteries for Industry and Consumers"
Web: http://www.getlithium.com

[TomH]

They sent me the exact same thing today.