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Old 12-15-2014, 05:31 PM   #11
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

Don't be afraid to talk to a boat marina in the area and find that old guy that is good at fiberglass repair. Ask at a local chandlery for who that guy is (there always is one). A good repair should be ground down until all the crack is gone and feathered out at least 6" past the crack. The fiberglass needs to bond so make sure all the gel coat is gone in an area at least 6" to 8" around the crack. If possible contact the manufacturer and ask them what the fiberglass lay-up schedule was. A schedule is an ingredient list, the closer you get to the original layers schedule and type of fiberglass used the better the bond. I am not an expert but I have seen lots of vessel repairs, they do stuff like this all the time. The marinas also have hoists if they will need to remove the top. If you just let them gel coat over the crack, it will return within a few years.

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Old 12-15-2014, 05:48 PM   #12
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

It wouldn't hurt to get an original layup schedule, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts it was built with polyester resin and something "unsophisticated" like chopped strand mat or E-glass. Now, you could repair with the same (and many do), but actually I would argue that using different materials would actually be better. So in other words, better than "matching" the original, since the original is no doubt nothing fancy - just basic glass or matt with polyester resin, most likely.

For a repair, I'd want to use something like a biaxial cloth. This puts more strands in better arrangements, and is stronger than matt or e-glass. Too, I would not use polyester resin. Polyester is fine in a chemical (original) bond, but not that great in a mechanical (secondary) bond. A secondary bond is all you can get at this point (chemical has to be within hours of the last layer, i.e. when built). Vinylester or epoxy resin both have much better secondary bonding characteristics than polyester. Epoxy can supposedly be tricky with gelcoat; Vinylester will be fine for all.

Anyone who would see that and just put on new gelcoat... no, don't go there! It's slightly concerning how close the crack is to the lower edge/joint (at least in the photo).
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:30 PM   #13
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

Thanks for all the good advice and thoughts. I got it seen by one RV repair specialist and have received some input from a local boat repair company. Almost everyone has the same response, "that looks real bad". Also, myself included, is the question of why in the first place? I have not been putting anything heavier than 2 surfboards up on the roof. In any regard it is repair vs replacement? As one gentleman said today," you can repair it but it seems like there is a problem if a crack the big occurs". To get it done right might require a complete replacement.

I have contacted van specialties to see what, if anything, they can offer. I did get some input from sportsmobile, but nothing in detail about the original installation. I do have the original paperwork that it was installed with the original build in 2007. So my hope is thru sports mobile I can get some details about how the install was done to help with getting it undone if replacement is necessary. I did get a supportive, "I've never seen something like that occur before". Anyways, just getting started with figuring out what are the options and how expensive this is gonna get. I do know it is beyond my skill set and abilities.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:44 PM   #14
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

Don't over think it.

If you might have to replace it, you have very little to lose in trying to repair it, and I am sure that is doable. Take it to the boat guy and have him fix it - it is only fiberglass. There are no blood vessels, ligaments, bones, circuits, wiring or fluid passages - you can't hurt it.
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:37 AM   #15
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

I guess the reason for this could be the flex of the body while driving hard sections off road. In flex sections the body realy flex also and maybe in your case the roof was the most fragile part at the body and crack? At the place the crack is it also could be that it is not the roof itselve what break. Maybe it is "only" the place where the fiberglass is fixed on the matal of the roof. Normaly they use a sort of sikkaflex to do this.
I first would go to flex the body in a direction that the crack will expand. It could be that then you can see more. Than go to a boat shop. They have the biggest experiance in it to repair things like this.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:36 AM   #16
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

That sounds like a good theory to me. Say the van wracks slightly diagonally, and maybe the metal part of the van leftover in that area is not the most substantial, or it's plenty rigid but still the van flexes and the top is the part that "gives." It would almost certainly be weaker than the van itself. Of course the Penthouse tops can "float" and move.

Looking at that photo again I don't see how you would repair it from the outside while on the van. You need to get out a ways from the crack all around for repair material and there is no "ways" in the down direction because the van body is right there. Maybe from the inside as there would be the under-turning lip to work with? What can you see (or photograph) on the inside there? I wonder what sort of natural stress riser might be there (since it cracked in a horizontalish line).
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Old 12-17-2014, 07:50 PM   #17
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

Everyone saying this is only fiberglass is exactly correct... an easy repair with inexpensive materials.

Head to HD and get a quart of resin and the MEKP that will come with it, and a small bag of their cloth, and some sort of felxible plastic blade, like a wide cheap putty knife. I'm guessing $30 total.

Once you've seen how this stuff sets, you'll know what you're up against. So, mix up a small batch in some ziploc disposable sandwich containers, or just in the lid. Watch how the stuff works through phases. From runny to gel. Once you hit the gel point, it won't be workable. Mixing up this small batch will give you an idea of how much time you will have to work. There's no way you will use the whole quart on this job, so make small batches until you have a feeling for what your working with. With one batch, cut out some glass, and get a feel for how it wets out, how and what happens if you start pulling too much on the ends. Try laminating something, like a paint stick, scrap of wood, anything.

Once you're comfortable, sand with some really aggressive grit, the areas around the repair. The 6" suggested earlier is a good bet. Fair this in towards the crack. You can't remove too much material here.

Now, use some blue painter's tape around anything that you don't want resin on. Wax paper or plastic sheeting won't absorb the resin if you need to mask off large areas.

Pre-cut you pieces of glass, preferably with wife's nice sewing scissors when she's not looking. Fill in with as many layers as needed, orient the strands in different directions each layer if you have enough cloth, just for extra strength.

Once pre-cut, put on some gloves, and lay up your first layer and wet it out. Keep doing this until you're about to your finished height, or preferably above it. Let the whole mess dry, you may do this in several stages to prevent layers from sloughing into your gutters. As you wait for drying, after about 3 hours (for epoxy) it will be just tacky, but not sticky. Grab a razor blade and cut around all of your tape and pull this up. The resin won't run and it will save you having to sand through resin to remove your tape later.

After fully cured, sand the whole thing flat. I would then paint on a very thin layer of resin without glass. This can be sanded very smooth then paint the whole thing. Not a gel-coat, but you've solved your problem.

If you actually want to tackle this, feel free to ask specific questions. I've tried to give an overview of the process.

It's only fiberglass, they make it every day.
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:41 PM   #18
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Re: Crack in contempo fiberglass top, help?

Thanks for the detailed idea. While I have not down any fiberglass repair prior I am considering it with this crack. The quotes I am getting for a replacement are making that very hard to pull the trigger on doing. I could get it repaired professionally but that is not all that cheap either and it sounds like I am not gonna make it a lot worst by trying a fix myself. No matter how it is repaired ( myself or pro) I am concerned about the "WHY" it occurred? not 10k dollars of replacement expenses concerned though.

One good thing is that mother nature has provided plenty of rain the past week and every time I check, which is often, it is still dry in the interior.

thanks again.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:59 AM   #19
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Reviving another old thread.. fiberglass tops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva View Post
1) These (fiberglass) tops are generally made with very "basic" fiberglass materials and methods. In other words, they are nowhere near as strong as they could be with more care, different reinforcement (the fiberglass cloth), different core, better resin-to-cloth ratio, etc. Often they are made with chopped strands and not actual cloth, so more like "particle board" than "plywood" in function, for an analogy...

Of course that said they do the job most of the time and are relatively inexpensive.
So, after swearing I could live with 54" in floor > ceiling height, now I am thinking about tops (you guys are a corrupting influence and may be putting my $5k mods budget in jeopardy :-). The goal of increased headroom would not be for standing (I am 6'3"), but for more storage by raising the bed / seating height, while still allowing needed headroom. I could make 54" work, but the necessary compromises might be less than ideal. Camping in the Odyssey, I had to crawl around on my (aging) knees, which was no fun. In the (standard roof) Ford, I have mebbe 4-6" more headroom, and can (barely) walk around hunched over. This still sucks, but a lot less.

I am toying with the idea of what I could do a little more headroom. Even the 6-12" more in various areas under a contoured 'aero' top could work for me, given my particular set or priorities. Moving around the van (even if hunched) would be a lot easier. I might consider taking a can opener (ok, nibbler) to Rex and doing it myself, if I felt confident that it would be within my ability to do the job and produce a nice, leak-free result. Also, I should mention that I generally do 99% of my own mechanical work solo, as my friends aren't generally the 'wrenchy' type.

New fiberglass tops cost a lot to ship. (Cyclevan is about 40 min away, but I was not crazy about their choices.) I am sure I could find a local used top cheaply, but if they are generally not super high quality, would a used one be reliable? If I am pulling it off a donor, would there be old, hardened bonding or sealing material that might resist releasing? (I would hate like hell to buy a top, start removing it, and end up damaging trying to wrestle it off when some bonding agent does not want to let go.)

There are lots of potential older (2007 and earlier) E-series conversion van donors with 12" aero roofs, but I am not sure if a top from the something in a 2000-2007 vintage would fit an '08. That would be the first question, but the real 'make or break' decision would be whether a top that has lived a full life would be statistically capable giving a long second life.

Just thinking out loud (or more accurately, thinking online..)
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-rex View Post

There are lots of potential older (2007 and earlier) E-series conversion van donors with 12" aero roofs, but I am not sure if a top from the something in a 2000-2007 vintage would fit an '08. That would be the first question, but the real 'make or break' decision would be whether a top that has lived a full life would be statistically capable giving a long second life.

Just thinking out loud (or more accurately, thinking online..)
Any used top from 1992 to the end-of-life E-Series would fit----they're all the same body assuming you replace the existing with one from the same length van.

Better tops quality-wise, most likely built according Viva's recommendation can also be obtained from Sampson Fiberglass: http://www.sampsonfiberglass.com/http://www.sampsonfiberglass.com/. Their website isn't fancy so calling them would be your best bet.

HTH
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