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Old 07-03-2022, 12:10 PM   #1
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Gas Nozzle Auto Shutoff - Triggers, but Splashes Gas

Hey SMB forum members,

I briefly mentioned this issue in my "build thread," but thought it might be useful to create a separate thread for this issue by itself.

Basically, the issue is that the gas pump auto shutoff triggers successfully, but a couple ounces of gas will splash out of the fill neck after the shutoff is triggered. Sometimes using the slower fill setting on the pump helps, but sometimes it still splashes. This happens at every single gas station I go to, so it's something with the van, not with the pump.

I started experiencing this issue after our van was converted at UJOR CO (our van's OEM tank was plastic, so a new Dorman tank was installed, instead of cutting down the OEM tank). I'm currently working with Justin to figure out what the issue might be, and he thinks he may have a solution. But in the mean time, I figured I'd see if you folks had any ideas!

Video of the issue occurring:
https://youtube.com/shorts/gLtUOK32BV8?feature=share

At first I thought the issue was a kinked rubber fill hose (the part that connects between the metal filler neck and the inlet on the gas tank). However, the issue persists even after I removed the kink from the hose.

Justin initially suggested that the new rollover valve he installed might be faulty, but now he thinks he might have installed "too big of vent valves." I'm not 100% familiar with the gas tank plumbing, but I guess he's referring to the check valve that relieves pressure buildup in the gas tank to the charcoal canister? I'm having a hard time figuring out how that might cause the symptoms I'm seeing, so if it makes sense to anybody here I'm certainly all ears.
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Old 07-03-2022, 04:42 PM   #2
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Possibly related to what I experienced in my first SMB - 2005 - V10 - when "someone" recommended the installation of a "fillupian" tube in the steel gas filler line - which kept the "second" fuel line filler flap open - in attempt to stop the gas kick back when filling ?
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:47 PM   #3
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I'm pretty dense so you'll have to explain this to me. Who is the "someone" that recommended you install the fillupian tube? And did the addition of that tube cause the gas splash back issue, or solve it?
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Old 07-04-2022, 09:28 AM   #4
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Do you have any photos of how the tank is vented now? The factory EVAP canister is in place and the lines hooked up correctly?

For the factory steel tanks, there are two different vents (side note...the plastic tanks have vent valves that are friction welded in...none of the plastic Eseries tanks were in diesel vans). One style of vent is found in gas vans (brown plastic) and the other in diesel vans (light blue plastic).

The differences between the plastic tank and the steel tank are minimal with respect to how the tank fills and neither have any internal baffling. Your problem is most likely a venting issue...either the vents on the tank are not correct or the EVAP system is not working properly. By chance do you notice your gas cap venting after driving for a while? The sound it makes is a couple seconds of "motorboat" (sorry...this is the only way I could think to explain this sound )
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Old 07-04-2022, 09:27 PM   #5
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Have a similar issue and when Mr. Anderson parked his van in my driveway we checked it out on his van.
Problem:
Fueling stops multiple times, sometimes ever gallon or so. No spill.

Improvement:
Compressed air through all evap tubes/ lines we could find :-D

Didnt solved it all, but made it much better.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:35 AM   #6
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Thanks MG and E-350 for the input.

I haven't had a chance to crawl under the van to check out the evap routing (been rainy/wet here the last couple days), but I have to imagine UJOR CO connected everything properly. Our van is a 2013 v10 that originally had a plastic tank, but it was replaced with a Dorman aftermarket tank for the UJOR 4x4 conversion.

Justin thinks he installed a vent that is too large, so he is currently working on another V10 at his shop and is going to report back to me whether using a different vent PN fixes the issue. Said he'd ship me the correct parts if it ends up working.

I've read about the issue E-350 is describing (fuel nozzle clicks off several times during filling process) and from my understanding that is definitely a clogged evap line issue. Different symptoms than what we're seeing, however.
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Old 07-10-2022, 06:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-350 View Post
Have a similar issue and when Mr. Anderson parked his van in my driveway we checked it out on his van.
Problem:
Fueling stops multiple times, sometimes ever gallon or so. No spill.

Improvement:
Compressed air through all evap tubes/ lines we could find :-D

Didnt solved it all, but made it much better.

Had a similar problem, and in addition to replacing some of the vent lines, replaced evap canister....
Problem solved...could not see the issue when tearing down the evap, since it is just packed charcoal, but the shut off issue ended...
It has been reported that repeated overfilling the tank can plug(?) the canister.....maybe breaking down the carbon particles...
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Old 08-07-2022, 07:45 PM   #8
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Justin graciously mailed me Ford PN 4C2Z9189AB "valve assembly - fuel vapour" to the fuel tank inlet. He happened to have another V10 at his shop experiencing the same issue as my van, and this part fixed the issue. Essentially a spring-loaded flap or one-way valve, so I agree that it should do the trick.

However, I'm having the hardest time actually getting it installed. It seems the ID of the fuel inlet on the tank is ever so slightly too small, so I can't insert the valve into the fuel inlet at all. The fuel tank does appear to be designed to accept this part, though - there's a notch that corresponds with a protrusion on the valve that I presume is to control the orientation of the part.

Anybody here have any ideas on how to open up the ID of the fuel tank inlet ever so slightly? I think it would just have to be the front edge where they rolled the material down to form the rib that the rubber hose slides over. Thinking maybe a tube expander or tail pipe expander? Hoping to be able to do this while the tank is still under the van, but I guess I'll drop the tank if I have to...


And here's the flapper valve for anyone who's curious:




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Old 09-20-2022, 12:12 PM   #9
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Did a little more digging under the van last night. Lowered the tank a couple inches to be able to get my hands above the tank and found that two of the vapor vent hoses were kinked pretty severely, likely blocking them off. The 1st one is the larger diameter hose that runs to the charcoal canister, and the 2nd is the smaller diameter hose that connects to the front of the tank. Wasn't able to route them in such a way that removed the kinks, so I'll be splicing in some extra hose to lengthen the hoses. Hopefully that fixes the splash back issue.





Chris at UJOR also mentioned that the only time he's seen this issue is when the rubber hose between the metal fill neck and the fuel tank inlet creates a "P-trap", so I made sure to straighten out that length of hose as best as I could, thought it's still not a perfectly straight shot.

Before:


After:


I also found some potential rodent damage on a couple hoses, though I'm not certain that's what that is. One is on the corrugated plastic tubing that runs out of the charcoal canister. This doesn't connect to anything, so I imagine it's just a vent hose and the holes in the tube aren't really a big deal? The second is the aforementioned rubber hose that connects from the tank to the charcoal canister. This one is not punctured all the way, but the cords are showing.



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