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Old 01-07-2021, 08:41 PM   #1
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Death Wobble/Squishy Quigley Front End ?

Greetings All -

I recently purchased a 2002 E-350 V-10 SMB Quigley 4x4 -with LESS THAN 4,000 actual miles - with the somewhat "squishy" front suspension or possible "death wobble" front end. I asked a renowned and respected forum member what to do and he said "get the Agile RIP Kit" installed. I respect his opinion and he is very knowledgable and I believe he had one of his earlier SMB's fixed with this RIP Kit.

Before I plunk down over $4,000 for parts and install - I wanted to "hopefully" get some other opinions and experiences from members who faced the same problem - and did you solve it with a RIP Kit - or by some other means, i.e., just new shocks front and rear - new shocks and new front coil springs - new shocks times 4 plus new springs plus new rear flat springs or add an additional "cheater" rear spring -- what specifically did you do to solve the problem - versus install a RIP Kit ?

The RIP Kit also calls for stabilizer bars, new steering box, new bushings, etc. Trust me - the bushings on this van are/look mint - tags still on front springs, etc. Original paint still shiny on the suspension both front and rear !

Appreciate detailed input if possible - and I apologize if this repeats any previous threads. Apparently this "wobble/squishy" was inherent in late '90's and early 2000 year Quigley 4x4 vans. If questions I'll try to answer once some input comes in.

Thanks all - and stay safe ! I'll try to post some photos down the road.
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Old 01-07-2021, 09:33 PM   #2
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First you need to figure out if you have death wobble or not. They are 2 different beasts. Is what you are experiencing violent behavior that you feel will possibly end your life by taking you into oncoming traffic or off the road or a severely unresponsive vehicle where your steering inputs are about 5 seconds delayed and never really seem to do what you want until after the “experience” is mostly over?
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Old 01-08-2021, 07:24 AM   #3
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Greetings shenrie -- My 2005 van had what I currently have - it was a V10 with SMB 4x4 - and the front was a bit "hoppy" in the front - it would bounce up/down maybe 2-3 times coming out of a highway dip - not knowing whether wheels were straight and steering response was delayed by maybe 2 - 21/2 inches on the st-wheel. Van did not have a mind to drive into the woods on its own or across the median - just a bit slow to respond. Pretty much cured by adding an additional leaf spring to front end - which was all leafs - no coil springs. I was told that even after "sitting" for 17 years - the shocks and springs were still "loaded" and could be a bit lazy or soft regarding suspension.Does that make sense to you ?

This 2002 van is somewhat the same way - maybe a bit squishier - and shocks hit bottom 2-3 times driving back to GA from Utah --

2005 van had Alum's tire carrier and gen-box on rear - this 2002 van has Alum's gen box with Honda 3000 - and large ! Alum storage box with my wife inside (just kidding !!). No spare tire carrier on rear - it was stored on top of Penthouse (bad idea I think ?). I gotta come up with another solution for that ! -- any ideas ??

Appreciate your response to thread - looking forward to "your" plan if you've got one ?

Russ
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Old 01-08-2021, 07:25 AM   #4
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Oops - need to add that spare tire on top was bolted to Yakima 3/4 length roof rack --
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Old 01-08-2021, 07:28 AM   #5
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Oops again !! - no violent behavior - no life ending experiences - just concerned a bit about oversteer coming out of a highway dip plus curve at same time - overcorrecting - and rolling the van ! NOT a good visual to be thinking about !
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublevan2 View Post

The RIP Kit also calls for stabilizer bars, new steering box, new bushings, etc. Trust me - the bushings on this van are/look mint - tags still on front springs, etc. Original paint still shiny on the suspension both front and rear !
I just had a RIP installed on my 2001 7.3 rig this past summer and certainly didn't need the items you listed above to do it. No new "stabilizer" bars, steering box or bushings. The cost for the complete kit from Agile was approximately $2000. Installation ran another $900 at a local shop. So about $3000 total.

My reason for installing it was to alleviate a sagging rear end and to solve "under damped" rear shocks that was causing the back end to bounce at low speeds. After posting my problem on this forum, members strongly suggested just getting the RIP and be done with it (I wanted to go with new shocks and a modified rear spring package to save a few bucks). I also spent time talking to both WeldTech and Agile and all advice came out the same - just put the RIP on and be done with it.

It sounds like your main complaint is the front end and a soft front suspension. I think that the new coil springs and tuned Fox shocks would dramatically improve the ride and also solve any bottoming out issue(s) you have. As a bonus you'll get a firmer rear end which will also help with any "floating" issue going down the Hwy you may be experiencing.

Since the install, I've driven the van 4000 miles and found the ride quality much better than before and couldn't be more happy with the upgrade.

You mentioned needing new "stabilizer" bars, do you mean control arms? I replaced my square (channel) bars the previous year with the Quigley upgraded round ones. If you have the open channel versions you will want to watch them for cracking as they are inherently week, but with only 4000 miles they should last you a long time as is...

Before deciding on a RIP, I had spent hour upon hour reading threads on this forum about new spring packs, different shocks, various coil springs and the like. In the end I followed the advice of the experts "just install the RIP and be done with it" and couldn't be more pleased

Good luck with your project!
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:53 AM   #7
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My 03 quigley does the same thing. Late response steering. I feel like a fish swimming at high speeds trying to go around things.

I did the original rip kit. Was dirt cheap back then. The prices I’m hearing now are asinine. Vendors definitely taking advantage of us. The original kits were moog springs, swaybar spacers, and custom tuned fox shocks. I ordered the shocks, made my own spacers, and bought the springs locally. It made a huge difference, but it didn’t eliminate my swim. Took it from a whit knuckled death grip experience at 80mph to a one handed driving experience at the same speed, but it is still an issue I’m sorting.

Do some searching on this forum for some of the other threads on this subject and it’s all good stuff to know. Last thing I was reading made a lot of sense and it’s one of the things I’d planning on doing and I hope it helps. Installing a rear panhard bar to keep the rear axle centered.

Take a look around and learn to use the search function. Most topics people ask about have been discussed at length. When I get some spare time I’ll see if I can post a few references that were good reads.
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:22 PM   #8
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If your concern is just a squishy front, as others have asked, I'd start with new MOOG coils in the front and a steering stabilizer if you don't have them and probably the custom shocks from Agile. You can order the coils yourself if you want and istall them if you're interested in doing so, but a shop likely wouldn't charge much. Pretty easy job. Those parts are a start to the RIP kit anyway and would be much less expensive way to start and see what you need from there.
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:22 PM   #9
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I am probably one of the few who can't praise the merits of the RIP kit.

I have the same van: 2002 E350 V10 Quigley. I wasn't chasing any wobbles or instability, just a front end refresh because the suspension and steering were so worn they looked ready to fall out. I jumped into the RIP kit. Once I completed the front end rebuild there was no death wobble, but I chased a front end looseness for months. It felt like the van wanted to tuck a shoulder and roll whenever in a turn or a hard wind hit the side. I finally put on a rear sway bar at the advice of a local shop. That was the only thing I added that created a tangible benefit. My next plan is to switch to a rear tracbar. The situation is probably a little different, but I think this might be a cheapish option to try before jumping in the deep end.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:19 AM   #10
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Death Wobble/Squishy Quigley Front End ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theshwed View Post
I am probably one of the few who can't praise the merits of the RIP kit.

I have the same van: 2002 E350 V10 Quigley. I wasn't chasing any wobbles or instability, just a front end refresh because the suspension and steering were so worn they looked ready to fall out. I jumped into the RIP kit. Once I completed the front end rebuild there was no death wobble, but I chased a front end looseness for months. It felt like the van wanted to tuck a shoulder and roll whenever in a turn or a hard wind hit the side. I finally put on a rear sway bar at the advice of a local shop. That was the only thing I added that created a tangible benefit. My next plan is to switch to a rear tracbar. The situation is probably a little different, but I think this might be a cheapish option to try before jumping in the deep end.

To OP as well....Are you still running the original rear leaf springs? If so, that might be something to address and would potentially solve a lot of whatís going on with the van tucking in on turns, the original leafs in the rear were not designed for the added weight of a full build and placing them up on 3 1/2Ē blocks doesnít help, in fact it may increase leverage if youíre experiencing any axle wrap symptoms.
A lot of people donít think about how much the rear setup affects the front end feel of a vehicle. If new full pack leafs are not in the budget, consider an add-a-leaf or helper spring to help support the original spring pack.
Wallowing or bouncing several times out of a turn, dip or bump suggests your shocks are shot or the current ones donít have enough rebound dampening, time to replace. If the rip kit is not in the budget, Bilstein makes a great shock, go with the comfort on the rears unless youíve got an EB thatís loaded, then youíll want to consider the HD version.
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