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Old 09-21-2015, 04:09 PM   #11
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Re:

Stock down 20%. Ouch.

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Old 09-22-2015, 09:11 AM   #12
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Yup, just read the issue affects over 11 MILLION cars, (and counting).

I do wonder how they're going to deal with this. I can only assume they added the cheat in order to get the power, economy and performance they were promising when driving but once they remove the software to ensure all emissions requirements are met, the cars will no longer perform at the stated level. Never mind that they lied about the emissions. If I had one of these I'd be wanting my money back.

Are they then going to have to buy back a significant number of these 11 million cars as well as deal with the potentially massive fine?
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:15 AM   #13
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Re:

Animas river spill? How about thousands of homes lost in California due to 100,000+ acres of wildfires caused by the mismanagement of woodlands by letting them over populate with trees and letting fuel collect on the forest floor?

Look, real men realize that we need dirtier air.

You either burn it up all at one time non-productively which scorches the soil and kills wild animals and humans.

Or you burn it one log at a time in peoples' fireplaces and stoves producing relatively cheap heat for humans.

There are only two ways to reduce woodland fuel:

1. Burn it either productively or unproductively with out of control destruction and loss of human life and wildlife; and/or

2. Log it or thin it mechanically spelled c-h-a-i-n-s-a-w and either build structures with it or burn it to create heat or energy.

Did I repeat myself? Yes, because it bears repeating that the natural environment must be managed artificially by man. Not by pantywaisted (wasted) metrosexuals who have no clue how nature works.

And on to VW. I guess to create the same power to get the same amount of work output, but have clean burning engines, they will have to increase the engine's displacement by going bigger - of course bigger engines will use twice the amount of diesel, so the effective tailpipe output between a larger engine and the current smaller engine will be the same or similar. That's environmentalism for you...

Stop Environ"mentalism" Now. (It is a "mental" disease.)

The real World is a dirty place. And it needs to be dirtier. Or at least add the soot into the atmosphere a little at a time rather than multiple forest fires each Summer all at one time...

Grow up.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:33 PM   #14
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Re: Re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by witoke
Yup, just read the issue affects over 11 MILLION cars, (and counting).

I do wonder how they're going to deal with this.
They are going to bite the big one...
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:41 PM   #15
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Re:

I have to admit it's a little bit entertaining, especially given the number of people who add 'tunes' to their engines (and remove them for testing purposes). In essence, VW did that for the consumer.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:03 PM   #16
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Re:

Does VW use the Urea injection other companies use to reduce NOX?

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Old 09-22-2015, 01:20 PM   #17
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Re: Re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta
Does VW use the Urea injection other companies use to reduce NOX?

Z
Read an article that said they did not use the Urea injection. This was one of the differences other companies were perplexed with - How were they meeting spec w/o Urea?
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:37 PM   #18
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Re:

Last year (not sure about now) the Jetta diesel did not need urea, while the heavier Passat (with the same engine) needed it.

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Old 09-22-2015, 01:41 PM   #19
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Re: Re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1der
This was one of the differences other companies were perplexed with - How were they meeting spec w/o Urea?
I've read* there are two thoughts on what's happening:
1) The software turns on the emissions controls during testing, and turns it off at all other times (this is the explanation presented in most media stories).
2) There are no emissions controls (i.e., no hardware) and the software is simply sending false data during testing.

The first would be an easy fix (but possibly with reduced power and/or fuel economy), while the second would pose a bit of a problem for VW. The second does seem unlikely, but 1der's comment perhaps supports the possibility.

* In other words, 2nd-hand and unsubstantiated.

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Old 09-22-2015, 01:50 PM   #20
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Re:

Popular Mechanics Article:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a1 ... ntroversy/

"The revelation of this emissions subterfuge answers at least two questions about VW's mighty little diesel. The first concerns urea injection, which every other modern diesel uses to pass emissions tests. The urea-injection systems help to neutralize NOx emissions, but they also add weight and cost to the car, and saddle car buyers with yet another tank of liquid that must be monitored. If you run out of this diesel exhaust fluid, it's like running out of fuel—on trucks with such systems, running dry on urea triggers a severe limp-home mode with a 5 mph speed limiter. That's how seriously the EPA takes NOx.

Everyone wondered how VW met emissions standards while foregoing urea injection. As it turns out, they didn't. It wasn't magical German engineering. Just plain old fraud."
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