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Old 02-01-2017, 11:04 AM   #11
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Yep - FB =1.8 billion sheep and counting.

Do you feel "informed"? I feel it is more manipulated and over saturated.

I hesitate to talk social or political on here because this is a haven away from that. But this thread touches on that so yeah. Recent elections have shown what a real mess facebook really is.

I've lived in 6 states and taken advantage of tons of outdoor activities in every one of them. Got my first 4x4 when I was 19 and have done a lot of dirt road driving. My take is you have to keep many areas multi use so that it stays protected. You isolate too many groups and you will find yourself on an island alone. I hike, fish, camp, snowboard, backpack, and generally enjoy being out there. That's most important. I agree that there are areas where different modes of transportation should not be available. But again, sensible middle ground. The biggest thing is to keep protecting public multi-use land for all to enjoy and managing it well.

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Old 02-01-2017, 11:21 AM   #12
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ug, bummed faceplant even got mentioned in this thread...

thanks for the info posted so far! ill spend some time with that info when i get a chance.
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:03 PM   #13
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Better it's overprotected a bit then let loose. I know there's talk about selling off a lot of public lands. Then you definitely will have no place to go.
+1

(adding some extra characters . . . )
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:33 PM   #14
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Better it's overprotected a bit then let loose. I know there's talk about selling off a lot of public lands. Then you definitely will have no place to go..
+1

(adding some extra characters . . . )
I also agree, also. In the spirit of someone that has been burned & at times turned off/scorned by this forum on the topic of "protecting" public lands - I'd third the idea of protecting natural areas. As a 6th generation Utard with Escalante roots, I fear that the Utah Legislature's desire to take control of the federal lands is a direct route to the end of the unbelievable trip reports on this forum. I support "Offroading" 100% but to the extent that there are roads, IMHO nobody needs to create roads in So. Utah where they don't exist.
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Old 02-01-2017, 05:26 PM   #15
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I support limited off-road use anywhere in sensitive or abused areas. That may include motorized vehicles, human powered vehicles, or foot travel. I am an avid hiker, cyclist and camper/explorer (4x4). I care for our planet, and protect the places I love while enjoying them. I don't care who manufactures my shoes as long as they work well.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:08 PM   #16
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Here in Oregon there is has been a push to expand the wilderness areas in SE Oregon and create a new Oywhee monument. This is mecca for dual sport riders and also for extreme isolation lovers. Keen created a van for promoting the creation of this monument and drove it all over Oregon. They staged some events down on the Oywhee and really pissed off the locals down there. Along I-5 there were quite a few no monument signs posted by farmers. The ONDA is like the sierra club here and is supported by Keen at least as far as that "monumental" van goes. It's hard to tell what's real and what's not but it bothers me since there are few facts used and mostly scare tactics. If you read what's said by the members of ONDA my van is "grave digger" and all I like to do is drive in all the rivers and wreck the stream banks after I steal all the artifacts and mine for uranium. Truth is that doing risky things 5 hours from cell coverage and help means most will stay on existing roads and enjoy the solitude like rest. I grow weary of the mindset that "only our use is OK because we don't use a motor and yours is evil". The companies that support that like REI and Patagonia start to make me feel backed into a corner and not want to buy their stuff.


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Old 02-03-2017, 08:40 AM   #17
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Sorry I don't have any hard numbers or documents like you asked for, and I too have no interest in a political debate, but I do have a little inside knowledge of the issue.

My wife used to serve on the board of the Washington Trails Association (WTA.org), a non-profit in support of hiking. In general, they advocated for access to more/better non-motorized trails. Besides maintaining and building new hiking trails, this sometimes meant lobbying the Forest Service to rebuild washed-out roads, etc, so that you could actually get to the trailheads. This occasionally put them at odds with the Sierra Club, who wanted to eliminate access entirely.

Anyways, the relevant point I wanted to make was that there's already a strong disparity in funding. Hiking is an inexpensive hobby that some people do just with their sneakers. Again, sorry for not having hard numbers, but the profit margins on hiking boots, backpacks, etc., are pretty small compared to the supply chains backing motorized off-roading. According to my wife, the ORV and snow-machine manufacturers and retailers have very well-funded lobbying arms that non-profits can barely compete with, even with a little support from the REIs and Patagonias of the world, who often stipulate that their donations are purely for trail work or "feel good" messaging, not controversial lobbying. Not to mention the industry-backed lobbying is focused and effective ("our shop accounts for 5% of the economy in your district; p.s. here's your campaign donation") while the non-profits tend towards being leaderless, disorganized, and not, shall we say, "worldly" enough to strongly influence politicians, especially the politicians who tend to have power in the rural districts that most public lands are near.

YMMV, but I wouldn't worry about boycotting some brands over this. I think the mental energy spent is way more than the couple of pennies that might eventually flow to something you disagree with, and even then, your disagreement is only partial -- you're on the same side as far as maintaining the "public-ness" of public lands.
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