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Old 09-28-2014, 10:52 AM   #11
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

I understand controlling an annoyance to the people using public lands and certainly any damage caused by certain groups or even people in doing so but I don't understand how the government can ask for a permit to take pictures of OUR lands whether or not I make money off it. I do doubt that they will go after the mom & pop with the kids type photos but I also hope it isn't used to single out people. Do magazines like Expedition Portal really pay a fee to print photos? Right now I have several national park pictures in my post about the Old Coulterville Trail dealing with the history of Yosemite. It is made clear that they can't be used for profit and in fact I don't. I also had to identify where I got the pictures from because they're not mine and I understand this. But pictures I take is a different story. We'll see how far it goes and I'll keep the tin foil hat on and the battle helmet off until I see what comes of this. I mean it's not area 51 for cryin out loud. But the media does like to trick people into believing things that aren't true and it does get suck up by the masses very quickly. Yet the thought of it just dovetails into how this country is going and it really pisses me off. All I can say is I wouldn't be surprised.

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Old 09-28-2014, 11:16 AM   #12
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

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Originally Posted by BroncoHauler
Nothing in the discussion so far has implied anything other than applying to commercial work, but how you define commercial could get sticky. So Daveb takes some pictures in one of the subject areas and posts it to his blog. Well maybe his blog is sponsored, or he generates some revenue by having some ads on it. Is his the photo now used for commercial purposes, and is Daveb not subject to a $1000 fine?

Also, the disclaimer of "Only to Congressionally designated wilderness areas that are under the purvue of the US Forest Service" doesn't make me feel better one little bit. Why are those areas subject to this permit/fee/fine? How do we see major shifts in public policy? Start small and then expand it, like the Forest Service Recreation Fee.


Herb
Good points. I agree with you. The rule is vague, and although I am not a lawyer, it appears to give the FS the power to approve or deny permits willy-nilly.

Some excerpts from here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/16/460l-6d
(Emphasis is mine.)

"(c) Still photography
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the Secretary shall not require a permit nor assess a fee for still photography on lands administered by the Secretary if such photography takes place where members of the public are generally allowed. The Secretary may require a permit, fee, or both, if such photography takes place at other locations where members of the public are generally not allowed, or where additional administrative costs are likely."

The Secretary "may require a permit"? And "...where members of the public are generally not allowed..."?
Sounds like the Secretary is now empowered to decide on a case-by-case basis who can get a permit, and can suddenly close areas that were previously open, at will.

"(2) The Secretary shall require and shall establish a reasonable fee for still photography that uses models or props which are not a part of the site’s natural or cultural resources or administrative facilities.
(d) Protection of resources
The Secretary shall not permit any filming, still photography or other related activity if the Secretary determines—
(1) there is a likelihood of resource damage;..."

What constitutes "damage"? Footprints? Broken twigs? Litter? Again, pretty vague.

Like the FAA ban on commercial photography by R/C aircraft, this rule also sounds like agency overreach. IMO.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:28 AM   #13
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

Taxes? What are they for?

Maybe charge people who don't pay taxes - double if you receive $$$$ for Uncle Sam.

Are they going to start charging us to use the Federal Highway System - oh, I forgot, they do.
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:25 PM   #14
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

No wonder you're moving to mehico
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:51 PM   #15
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

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Originally Posted by Ocsmb
No wonder you're moving to mehico
It's funny how you can move to a country that doesn't allow you to own your own property but end up with more freedom... well to some extent
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:01 PM   #16
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

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Originally Posted by daveb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocsmb
No wonder you're moving to mehico
It's funny how you can move to a country that doesn't allow you to own your own property but end up with more freedom... well to some extent
There is a Canada, guns, yet not being allowed to own a new SMB comment in there somewhere...
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:48 PM   #17
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocsmb
No wonder you're moving to mehico
It's funny how you can move to a country that doesn't allow you to own your own property but end up with more freedom... well to some extent
You own your own property, with title insurance also.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:59 PM   #18
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

photographix: Do you know if Ansel Adams would have been covered by this law if it existed when he was taking pictures of Yosemite?
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:59 PM   #19
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

No guns no Bueno for me
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:38 AM   #20
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Re: Fees/fines for commercial photography in US Forests

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Originally Posted by E350
photographix: Do you know if Ansel Adams would have been covered by this law if it existed when he was taking pictures of Yosemite?
Again, let me first state that I am not a lawyer!!!

I don't believe it would have affected him. From what I've read, Adams very rarely ventured off the roads that existed in his day to take the majority of pictures he made. Which would fall under the "where members of the public are generally allowed" bit I posted earlier.

That's not to mean that he never took his camera on hikes, though. He very much did so, but as to exactly where and when, I do not know.

You have to remember that Adams and John Muir (of Sierra Club fame) were big proponents of the early efforts to promote the idea of protecting the National Park and Forest areas we enjoy today.

Times were different then, as some people in the government wanted to promote the Parks and Forests any way they could, and Adams' relationship with Kodak and Life magazine gave him a lot of pull.

Under today's conditions, he probably would have been granted a favored status and would have been allowed to go almost anywhere he wished, just based on his reputation. But unlike his era, areas like Yosemite and Yellowstone weren't overrun with tourists like they are now.
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