The beginning of the end...

[Steve Hunt]

Originally Posted by 86Scotty

...What cracks me up is the fad nature or #vanlife...As human beings we have evolved in to living in fixed structures. It only makes sense. That's where I think the young #vanlife crowd has sort of gone off the rails....but they'll be back.

Totally agree, No doubt they'll be back and then it's the down cycle of the fad that will generate all the "affordable" inventory.

[simplesez]

Quick question, is anyone aware of the rental and housing market price increases in the past 10 years? It's great if you bought in back during the last recession. You have massive equity. Not so great if your wages barely increased and the cost of housing skyrocketed without you holding a mortgage. Are you aware of how many young people still live with their parents? This increased by a lot during Covid-19. The bubble isn't going to burst because there is no bubble. It is not going to self correct. This level of inflation isn't going away without a disaster. I'm not chicken little..this is how young people think and they are likely not wrong. Teasing #vanlife as a passing fad is a bit silly at this point. Don't lose touch with the reality that living in an automobile is a viable alternative these days. That is both an admiral thing and something to be deeply concerned about.

Carry on with the joking. Sorry to get serious

[JWA]

Originally Posted by N147JK

I see perfectly good houses sitting empty around me because they are owned by foreign "investors" (usually Chinese) who have no intention of living in them. There are local families who need these dwellings, but there they sit - empty and unused. This kind of thing is wrong and it needs to be stopped.

That's very short sighted if your belief is those who might be in need are or should be entitled to something you believe isn't being utilized to your expectations. We live in a "golden rule" world where those who have the gold make the rules.

Regarding "van life" since the dawn of automobiles there's been some sort of camping vehicles either developed or after-market converted to suit the markets. As long as our cities are major places for work and dwelling there will be a market for "get away" vehicles. Not sure there's ever been a massive swing up or down in that market but it seems to stay steady.

It also seems to me if this COVID crap hasn't killed enthusiasm for the "get away" lifestyle it will remain present for a long while yet.

As for the OP it will be interesting to see if that service gains any traction. It might be work making contact to see what they're really offering and what it costs. Sadly their claimed credentials are at best sketchy, the listing on Craig's List being the first bad note for me.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by JWA

That's very short sighted if your belief is those who might be in need are or should be entitled to something you believe isn't being utilized to your expectations. We live in a "golden rule" world where those who have the gold make the rules.

There are plenty of locals who can afford these empty houses. But you're right, it's very simple.. these places go to the highest bidder and their owner can do with them as they please. They are potential money-makers and that's all there is to it. Every once in awhile I see what looks like complete nonsense, then I'm reminded of how things work in the USA.

[Orv]

A lot of US housing policy breaks down to, "I want someone to work at the grocery store, and someone to come clean my toilet for me, but I don't want them to be able to afford to live near my neighborhood, because that would be icky and might make my house go up in value less quickly."

When all those huge McMansions were left empty after the housing bubble popped, I remember thinking "those would make some sense if there were three families living in them." But of course zoning prohibits that.

[Orv]

Originally Posted by simplesez

Teasing #vanlife as a passing fad is a bit silly at this point. Don't lose touch with the reality that living in an automobile is a viable alternative these days. That is both an admiral thing and something to be deeply concerned about.

I think part of the problem is there's two groups of people involved in what we like to call #vanlife. The first group is what you allude to, people who really don't have any other housing options. These people are one step above the people I see sleeping in their cars behind the local supermarket, and two steps above sleeping on a park bench. Many of them actually have jobs, but don't make enough money to afford housing, and lack family connections they can stay with. (I've also known people who had family so abusive they were legitimately better off living in their cars.)

The second group is to Millennials what the hippies were to Boomers -- people with money (often inherited) who romanticize the idea of a life on the road. That's the fad part of it, the part driving a lot of the high-end sales, and probably the most likely part to move on to the next fad.

[Steve Hunt]

Originally Posted by Orv

I think part of the problem is there's two groups of people involved in what we like to call #vanlife. The first group is what you allude to, people who really don't have any other housing options. These people are one step above the people I see sleeping in their cars behind the local supermarket, and two steps above sleeping on a park bench. Many of them actually have jobs, but don't make enough money to afford housing, and lack family connections they can stay with. (I've also known people who had family so abusive they were legitimately better off living in their cars.)

The second group is to Millennials what the hippies were to Boomers -- people with money (often inherited) who romanticize the idea of a life on the road. That's the fad part of it, the part driving a lot of the high-end sales, and probably the most likely part to move on to the next fad.

I think your group 1 is a small subset of a 3rd group that simply choose to live in their car/van completely independent of group 2 millennials. Just like the Hippies you are where you are because of every decision you have ever made in your life. I know anyone can come up with some sad story that illustrates the opposite and no doubt the millennials and many others have been poisoned by the liberal notion of everyone's a "victim" of something but the fact is that many people simple make bad decisions or are satisfied at a infinite number of different levels. I had a rough stretch 2-year period long ago where my monthly net income was only $1500 and my house payment was $800....ok, so what, you just knuckle down and push forward.

Anecdotal for sure but I visit all the MTB parks in Fla and the typical rider is largely millennial age. The MTB boom the last 2-3 years in terms of supply/demand has created a waiting list on par with vans....and $10,000 mountain bikes are routine. My wife and I look for houses from time to time and the majority have more bathrooms than bedrooms, WTF. I grew up in Florida with no air conditioning in school till I hit the 9th grade so the minimal standard of living has changed just a bit. Shockingly I survived unscared, with no inheritance and now owner of a 6 figure van-toy, go figure.

[rionapo]

Van Gurus offer many valuable services. For example, they’ll look for a van for you for $500. </sarcasm>

https://www.thevangurus.com/services

[Orv]

Originally Posted by Steve Hunt

I know anyone can come up with some sad story that illustrates the opposite and no doubt the millennials and many others have been poisoned by the liberal notion of everyone's a "victim" of something but the fact is that many people simple make bad decisions or are satisfied at a infinite number of different levels. I had a rough stretch 2-year period long ago where my monthly net income was only $1500 and my house payment was $800....ok, so what, you just knuckle down and push forward.

Everyone's situation is different of course, but just like weight loss comes down to calories in vs calories out, this comes down to the fact that housing prices have increased much more rapidly than incomes. Just from 2001 to 2018 median rent went up 13%, and median income was basically flat. (Note that these are averages -- cities have tended to have much larger increases, 30% or more, and cities are where most of the jobs are.) So on average more people are going to be having a hard time affording housing now than was true in the past. This isn't just a matter of people "poisoned" by notions of victimhood -- there aren't enough bootstraps in the world for everyone to pull themselves up that far.

$800 out of $1500 is bad, but trust me, there have been times when I *wished* I was only paying 53% of my take-home income for rent -- and I've actually done better than most people I know. Once upon a time the guideline was no more than 1/3 your pay should go to rent, but I hardly know anyone who's meeting that these days.


That's not to say everyone in the Millennial cohort is struggling, and here in the recreational sports and camping communities we're mostly exposed to the people who did well for themselves. If you happened to jump into the right tech firm at the right time, yeah, you could cash in. That's a minority, though.

Hell, I'm only here because my wife developed an entertainment property that became unexpectedly successful. I graduated from college straight into the tech recession of 2000, and that permanently limited my income -- unlike the guys who graduated a couple years before me and joined startups, I've never made a six figure salary.

[b. rock]

Ha, this actually isn't an awful idea. For people that make enough money, time > money, so having someone act as a broker that's actually knowledgeable in vans (assuming they really are) find them the ideal van would be a done deal.

I was assuming most people buying $100k vans were fairly well off, but with the number of 4x4 Revels and similar Sprinters I see rolling around CO any given weekend does make me wonder how the #s shake out. Some folks are much more risk tolerant and tolerant of financing vehicles as well.

I can agree with the housing vs income shift. Talking with neighbors and family, a lot are utterly clueless as to how lop sided it's become, or are aware of what housing costs now but just haven't connected the dots that income has not increased along side it. I got a solid chuckle at complaining about $800 in rent vs $1500 in income - that ratio is par for the course these days. The only way to get 3 figure rental in most desirable/growing large metros (aka where the jobs are) is to have roommates or live an hour plus out of town, which has its own costs. Or have bought in ~10+ yrs ago.