Canyonlands - Needles & Maze Districts

[joefromsf]

Originally Posted by pjpvi

Thanks for the nice words Joe.

Yes, I have 35" Nitto Ridge Grapplers which I absolutely love. I used to run Toyo M/T's and, while they were a little better in mud, they were worse in pretty much every other category. Glad the removable steps are working out. I left mine at home as, like you, I knew this trip would be a lot of 4wheeling. My wife REALLY missed them though. Next time we do a trip like this together I need to at least bring her passenger door step and just remove it before 4wheeling as needed.

The White Rim Trail is beautiful. What camps did you stay at? It was my initial introduction to Canyonlands back in 2009 and need to get my wife there sometime.

Phil,


I had done the WRT twice before on motorcycles running it counter-clockwise and completing it in a long day.

Last September was our first time in the van, but on short notice we could only get one campsite (Taylor) which is not very far into the trail, so we only did an in and out trip. We did explore as far as Potato Bottom on that trip, crossing Hardscrabble both ways before going up to our camp up Taylor canyon.

On our most recent trip we got camps Gooseberry A and Potato Bottom A, which are spaced very well for a 3 day / 2 night trip running clockwise. Unfortunately, a week before the trip we got a warning from the Park Service that the Green River was forecasted to rise to 15,000 CFS around the time of our trip, which would rise up into Upheaval Wash and flood the WRT road, making it impassable. We were scheduled to exit via that section on our last day (Wednesday), so I had arranged for a friend to send me texts of the Green River flows each morning and evening to my Inreach.

On Tuesday morning the flow was 14,000 and trending upward. As we passed folks coming from that direction we would ask about their experience crossing that wash. In the morning there was no water affecting the road, but by late afternoon folks were reporting the water to be about 20" deep. At 7:30 PM in our Potato Bottom camp, I got an Inreach text saying the flow was now 15,000 and still rising. We had planned for this possibility (making sure we had plenty of fuel) and agreed we would have to turn around the next morning and reverse our tracks in one long day.

On Wednesday morning we got the Inreach text telling us the flow was now 15,900 and still rising, so we knew we made the right decision the night before. The river ended up peaking around 17,000 and didn't drop below 15,000 until Sunday.

Camp Ratings:
- Gooseberry A (4 out of 5 stars)
- Potato Bottom A (3 stars)
- White Crack (5 stars) we didn't camp here but scouted it out since my research said it was the best.
- Taylor (4 stars) from last years visit

--Joe

[Spr]

PJPVI. WOW!! That was insanely tight. Nice work
Joefromsf, That’s great you were getting texts :-). We knew something was up when there was no cars coming from the opposite direction and by the time we made it down the Green river was way out of its banks. Considering we showed up with a 1/4 tank we just had to go for it. About 100 yards at 20 inches deep. Luckily we motored right through.

[E-350]

Nice! That looks like fun!
How deep was the sprinter burried? Could imagine your e-series has a bit more ground clearance? :-)

[Spr]

The sprinter was a 4x4 with larger tires. His clearance was pretty good. I’ll tell you though, that sprinter should have been rolled, stuck, and possibly flooded on that trip but it held up amazingly. He said the off camber stuff was terrifying but manageable.

We actually ended up moving into a Sprinter platform recently, but I’m still not used to the off camber stuff

[pjpvi]

Now you guys had me go back and look for my WRT trip report. That was back in 2009 and appears that Taylor camp was my favorite back then. What a muddy mess it was driving in the first day. Miles and miles of slick red mud. Fun time!

[joefromsf]

Originally Posted by Spr

PJPVI. WOW!! That was insanely tight. Nice work
Joefromsf, That’s great you were getting texts :-). We knew something was up when there was no cars coming from the opposite direction and by the time we made it down the Green river was way out of its banks. Considering we showed up with a 1/4 tank we just had to go for it. About 100 yards at 20 inches deep. Luckily we motored right through.

Attachment 44221

SPR,


Did your permit holder get an email a week before the trip warning them of the potential for the road to be flooded?



So what date and time did you do the water crossing? At 20" deep that would match what we heard from folks having crossed it later in the afternoon on Tuesday, May 31 when it was running at 15,000.


We would have had to cross on Wednesday, June 1 but we knew the flow was 15,900 that morning, so we assumed it would be too high to safely cross. And we didn't want to take the time to tackle Hardscrabble just to take a look.


Note to all folks running the WRT. There is voice quality cell coverage available at White Crack Camp. We used it to ask the rangers if there were any camps available due to cancellations so we wouldn't have such a long drive out in one day. Unfortunately there weren't.

[Spr]

joefromsf- I was the permit holder and never got any email. We knew there was an advisory but were told that if it got too bad they would close the road at one of the campsites (going off memory so I don't remember which one). The entire trail was extremely light with cars, and the campground we stayed at was just us. Maybe we should have paid more attention to all the signs :-). Pretty stupid, but we made it out just fine and had a blast in the process.

I pulled the meta data from that photo I shared and it was taken at 3:50pm 6-1-2017. Ironically the same day you would have crossed but 5 years prior. If you know how to dig up the flow history etc I would be super curious to know what it was.


pjpvi- thanks for your old post. That mud is pretty slick out there. Nice to hear you had traction the whole time. I LOVE the red dirt and how it seems to linger for years after a Moab trip. We took the sprinter out there a year ago and I still find some in the driveway every now and again. I re watched your squeeze video, seriously cant believe it was so tight the ladder made the difference. Unreal!

[pjpvi]

That mud is pretty slick out there. Nice to hear you had traction the whole time.

I seem to remember it was almost like driving on ice the whole way in but the new Toyo M/T's were doing their job and slinging mud everywhere. There was a pickup truck in front of us that at one point just suddenly did a 360 in the mud. Didn't hit anything and just kept on going after his maneuver. I'm sure I still have some of that red mud tucked away somewhere in a crevasse or two under the van!

[joefromsf]

Originally Posted by Spr

joefromsf- I was the permit holder and never got any email. We knew there was an advisory but were told that if it got too bad they would close the road at one of the campsites (going off memory so I don't remember which one). The entire trail was extremely light with cars, and the campground we stayed at was just us. Maybe we should have paid more attention to all the signs :-). Pretty stupid, but we made it out just fine and had a blast in the process.

I pulled the meta data from that photo I shared and it was taken at 3:50pm 6-1-2017. Ironically the same day you would have crossed but 5 years prior. If you know how to dig up the flow history etc I would be super curious to know what it was.

SPR,

OK, I thought you were on the trail the same time as us. I was able to retrieve the data for 2017.

Looks like the flow was about 16,400 when you crossed, very high but perhaps you got lucky with a higher sediment level in Upheaval Wash. Your window was perfect as it looks like it was higher for a two week period before and a three week period after your crossing. That would explain the lack of traffic on the trail that spring.

--Joe

[joefromsf]

Originally Posted by pjpvi

I seem to remember it was almost like driving on ice the whole way in but the new Toyo M/T's were doing their job and slinging mud everywhere. There was a pickup truck in front of us that at one point just suddenly did a 360 in the mud. Didn't hit anything and just kept on going after his maneuver. I'm sure I still have some of that red mud tucked away somewhere in a crevasse or two under the van!

Wow. Taylor was dry when we went thru last year, but the rangers warned us it was challenging. It had several very steep drops into and climbs out of the wash. Had a pucker moment when SherryFromSF turned the steering wheel in the opposite direction I would have chosen while the van was in a precarious tilt.