Shocks like bump stops

[REDOVAL]

Originally Posted by arctictraveller

Interesting info Scott. First off, installing King bypass shocks would take up a huge amount of room, Have you found ones that will fit in the stock amount of space available? Next, I'm a bit confused, your rear axle seems to be in the stock position, very close to the frame, with only a couple inches of travel, is there no lift in the rear? If the new springs lifted the rear, did you adjust the length of the stops or did the shocks have adequate travel for the new position? Your rear springs look to be sacked out, was this prior to installing the Weldtech springs? As for limiting straps, your talking just about the front right? To keep the springs from falling out? Don't the leaf springs in the rear prevent excess droop without straps? Since I only bottom out the rear by mistake, the stock, hard rubber stops should work fine, but a set of hydraulic bumps would be really nice, but the amount of fabrication to get them in would be a lot of work for little benefit in my case. Your new bumps look to be bolted directly into the stock position, any photos of the new mounts?

The King bypass shocks in a 2.5x8 configuration with the cap over cylinder upper mount and welded loop lower mount will mount in the stock location without issues using a stem to loop coverter and a reducing bushing. Regarding their size and taking up room....yes they are large, but no larger than the shocks I'm currently running.

My van is up about 4" in the rear over stock and tucks the 35" tires all the way into the wheel wells. It sits at exactly 50% travel and has about 6" of compression available. We tend to cycle the rear end enough that a new set of springs are required every couple of years (as is the case with any leaf spring passing across a large arc). I don't want a tall rig, rather one that keeps a low COG and still allows for full suspension stroke and proper clearance for the tires. The photos showing the bumps are wide angle to allow for posting in other media sites.

The stock springs don't allow for much droop, but the Weldtec springs can allow the rear end WAY more travel...so much so that the shock is the only limiting factor and needs to be protected. Limit straps are needed front and rear on all offroad rigs.

Regarding the hydro bumps posted, those look to be on a Raptor or Tundra as the vans don't have any room in that location compared to those vehicles. There are only 2 hydro bump configurations I am aware of that will physically fit, at least with my setup.

Scott Thompson
Vantage Optics

[TomsBeast]

Originally Posted by REDOVAL

Ahhh, welcome to my world. ... Our front end is strapped at just over 13" of travel and keeps everything properly controlled when we leave the ground....happens very frequently for us...Keeping up with current generation Ford Raptors and other legit prerunners isn't easy to do...

Scott, you have a serious problem.



Isn't there a 12 step program you're supposed to be going to?


Do you run with the SCORE or NORRA crowd? Pre-runner van?



Your van sounds like something Scott, Kris and Jason at VW Paradise would come up with (not sure if you know those guys, but I'm thinking you might)

[REDOVAL]

Originally Posted by TomsBeast

Scott, you have a serious problem.



Isn't there a 12 step program you're supposed to be going to?


Do you run with the SCORE or NORRA crowd? Pre-runner van?



Your van sounds like something Scott, Kris and Jason at VW Paradise would come up with (not sure if you know those guys, but I'm thinking you might)

This is all simply a family hobby...the family just likes messing with me at this point as they all have built Raptors that we are keeping up with. For the most part we are no slower on any given trail, though obviously down on power compared to the trucks. Those that have been in my van understand the efforts as it's very smooth over some decently heavy stuff. I do believe there is plenty of room left in the van chassis for improving, though not on a basis anyone else will bother with. I'm very happy with it and get great satisfaction after finishing a 100 mile trip without any issues while averaging 30mph. With 150k miles I'm nearly ready to start cutting into it and getting a bit more serious!

Scott Thompson
Vantage Optics

[killacks]

Scott, can you share some footage of your van on the run. Would love too see it in action!

[REDOVAL]

Originally Posted by killacks

Scott, can you share some footage of your van on the run. Would love too see it in action!

Easiest way to see what I have is via @daddozr on Instagram. We are heading back out this weekend and I will get more footage to share.

Scott Thompson
Vantage Optics

[Kibo]

The timing of this thread couldn't be better. I recently placed an order for Alcan springs to remove the blocks on my Quigley and level the rear with the front end (CC880S springs). I was quite excited about this...until I realized that removing the blocks means I will lose the perches that act as the platform for the (stock) rear bump stops. I was researching the Sumo Springs intended for SMB use (PN SSR-122-40), and inadvertently ordered them despite PayPal telling me I'd be able to review the transaction before checking out. So hopefully soon I'll be able to advise others on how this works out!

I also measured for shocks, and in both the front and rear on my 2011 Quigley there are adapters that raise the lower shock mounting points by ~2". Quigley must have done this to allow the use of stock travel shocks, but it limits me to 8" travel on stem/loop Fox 2.0 shocks. (Note for those considering stem loop adapters, the adapter limits your travel even further!) Removing these 2" adapters would allow the 10" Fox 2.0 shocks to fit without a problem. Fortunately the front adapters are bolted in place and should be simple to remove, but the rear are welded to the stock shock brackets and will require some careful grinding/cutting to remove them since they narrow the shock mounting space. I'm getting ahead of myself though, as I haven't measured droop to see if 10" travel is even needed.

I'd be really curious to see how others have implemented limit straps. I don't have any plans to do crazy airborne antics or extreme articulation rockcrawling where the shock will top out, but even so it seems highly advisable to add limit straps.

[Lilnuts2]

The best way to know what shock length you need on a Ford van with coil springs is to:
Remove the upper spring retaining strap bolt.
Raise your van by the bumper or frame until the spring is about a 1/2" out of the top bucket.
Measure the distance between your shock mounts. This is the ideal extended shock length.
While the spring is uncompressed measure the free spring length.
Now measure the diameter of a coil (inboard from the ends a coil or two) count the number of coils and multiply the diameter by the number of coils to get the estimated fully compressed spring length.
Subtract the compressed spring length from the from the uncompressed free spring length, this is your absolute maximum suspension travel.
Let's say you have an even 5" of absolute travel, you added a 1/2" of shock length at full extension now add another 1/2" of shock travel for the compression end of the travel. Meaning if your suspension travel is 5" your shock should have at least 6" of travel, centered on suspension travel range. In this case subtract the 6" from your fully extended shock length this would be the ideal compressed shock length.

If you were building a suspension system you would pick your shocks and mount placement based on this method. However, in our vans there are design limitations to consider. In general the shock mounts are predetermined. The range of travel may be limited by clearances, the pumpkin hitting the crossmember, trac bar hitting a number of things etc, this is where bump stop height comes into play.

Ideally you would remove your shocks and springs (possibly one end of the trac bar) and raise the axle up as high into it's travel as it will go. Now measure the length between your shock mounts. Remembering your compressed shock length compare the two numbers. If the spring removed number is smaller then the compressed shock number you have no clearance issues because the fully compressed spring will never let the axle raise that far up. You would set your bump stops up so when they are fully compressed the spring is just shy of full compression.
If the actual travel is less then your absolute travel because the axle is hitting something you must set your bumpstops up to deny the axle from making contact, this could affect your shock compressed length, and overall shock length.
Prior to reinstalling your springs lower the axle as far as it will go without damage (brake lines, front driveshaft, etc) now measure your shock mount distance. Compare this distance to your ideal shock length, it is generally several inches greater. What this tells you is, if your extended shock length is too long and your front axle comes off the ground the only thing that keeps your front end from plummeting into this range is that little strap on the top of the coil spring mount. I personally don't thing that strap can maintain the hanging weight of a 4x4 axle and oversized wheels. I feel every Ford van with a spring 4x4 front end should change that strap to a complete loop that would hold the spring in the top bucket mount or limiting straps installed no matter what.

With leaf springs the range of travel can be so great bumpstop height is critical for protection of bashing into things and overly compressing the shocks. Precise shock length with leaf springs is not as critical because a leaf spring can't fall freely out of place But the same rules shock travel with the range of the suspension travel still apply.

On a coil spring design your shock length is very important, even more so if the coil spring is allowed to come out of the bucket at the most inopportune times. Finding the perfect shock that meets exactly your needs as far as sizing probably won't happen. So you must use bumpstops and limiting straps or change the top coil mount strap (my preference) to ensure your range of travel works as good as it can, safely and without shock damage.

[Kibo]

Originally Posted by Lilnuts2

I feel every Ford van with a spring 4x4 front end should change that strap to a complete loop that would hold the spring in the top bucket mount or limiting straps installed no matter what.

Do you have any examples of this complete loop solution? I've been assuming that limit straps are the way to go, but I'd be curious to see what else could be done.

[Lilnuts2]

Kibo, I don't have the van near me and it would be very hard to take a picture of it that would show it off very well.
That stock strap is essentially a "J" what I did was make a new strap that was long enough to be bent into a "U", drilled a slot in the mounting bucket for the "U" to pass thru, then bolted it in the same hole as the stock "J". This clamps the top of the spring to the top mount. The stock "J" is just a retainer clip.

This securing of the upper spring mount will allow the spring to overextend or attempt to stretch should the axle come off the ground. The more the spring is stretched the harder it fights that over extension, without the harsh sudden stop a limiting strap can provide. If a clip is installed you can have up to 2" of additional shock length as long as the shock compressed length is still within your bumpstop travel range.


Hope that makes sense.

[Kibo]

Thanks, that makes sense. The stock "J" on mine has small tabs that lock into the spring bucket, but I wouldn't count on them holding the weight of the axle and wheels if they were shock-loaded.