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Old 11-08-2009, 10:44 PM   #11
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

1) I have not looked into a make-your-own Isotherm, but I will
2) I'll also look into reusing the Norcold cabinet with the make-your-own Isotherm compressor, evaporator, electronics
3) The approximate interior dimensions of my cabinet are 18 3/4"w x 20"h x 20"d. There are approximate, because I also have some power cables hanging from the top of the cabinet, water lines to the rear of the cabinet,....
4) Unless I go with a really small 12V ice chest, it won't utilize the cabinet space well at all
5) I am looking at one of the high end units, that as far as I can tell, are really portable refrigerators.
6) Yeah Jage, I really do hate the Norcold that much. 2 1/2 years old, hardly been used, basically not repairable. Yeah I hate it, and really hate it for something on the order of $600-$700. The nice ARB unit that Expedition Exchange sell is more than that, especially if you add the slide and other options, but it's transferable to other vehicles, runs on 120V, and has a three year warranty. Oh, and it has a Danfoss compressor.

From Expedition Exchange:

ARB Fridge Freezer (10800472) $775

The new ARB 47-liter (50-quart) Fridge Freezer represents the latest in portable freezer-fridge technology and features, including a Danfoss compressor with smart electronic control to enable rapid cool-down to the target temperature, cooling setting based on the exact target temperature (in Celsius or Fahrenheit) rather than 1, 2, 3, etc. dial settings and experience, integral thermometer that can display in either Celsius or Fahrenheit, an integral battery monitor with three different settings that will shut down the Fridge Freezer if the vehicle's battery depletes to a certain voltage level and turn on the Fridge Freezer if the voltage rises to a certain level, the ability to run on 12/24V DC or 100-240V AC power and the power cords to run on both power sources, a 12/24V DC plug with detachable fitting that can be fitted to Merit/Hella sockets as well as standard cigarette-lighter sockets, a removable heavy-duty lid that swivels on stainless steel hinges and does not detach inadvertently, a cam-lock latch for the lid, a recessed digital control panel, recessed steel handles that double as tie-down points, rubber feet to secure the Fridge Freezer in place, steel cabinet sides to withstand heavy use, rear clips to prevent inadvertent disconnection of the power cables, reversible basket to segregate the contents of the unit or to create one large area for storage of longer items, a detachable partition for the basket, an integrated evaporator to simplify cleaning, an integrated drain plug to facilitate draining, a dairy/fruit compartment that is designed to hold its contents at slightly higher temperatures than inside the basket, 72-can total interior capacity (60-can capacity in the basket compartment and 12-can capacity in the dairy/fruit cooling cabinet behind the basket), internal LED light that turns off when the lid is closed, and a three-year warranty. External dimensions are H20" x W15" x D28", so the ARB Fridge Freezer is pretty much the same size as an Engel 45 Freezer Fridge but with substantially greater capacity and more useful layout. We are extremely impressed with the thoughtful design and superb execution of this unit.


Herb

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Old 11-09-2009, 04:53 AM   #12
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

How about:
http://www.bushman.com.au/
They are popular over here for off roaders...
only a thought
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:18 AM   #13
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco_hauler
1) I have not looked into a make-your-own Isotherm, but I will
2) I'll also look into reusing the Norcold cabinet with the make-your-own Isotherm compressor, evaporator, electronics
3) The approximate interior dimensions of my cabinet are 18 3/4"w x 20"h x 20"d. There are approximate, because I also have some power cables hanging from the top of the cabinet, water lines to the rear of the cabinet,....
4) Unless I go with a really small 12V ice chest, it won't utilize the cabinet space well at all
5) I am looking at one of the high end units, that as far as I can tell, are really portable refrigerators.
6) Yeah Jage, I really do hate the Norcold that much. 2 1/2 years old, hardly been used, basically not repairable. Yeah I hate it, and really hate it for something on the order of $600-$700. The nice ARB unit that Expedition Exchange sell is more than that, especially if you add the slide and other options, but it's transferable to other vehicles, runs on 120V, and has a three year warranty. Oh, and it has a Danfoss compressor.

From Expedition Exchange:

ARB Fridge Freezer (10800472) $775

The new ARB 47-liter (50-quart) Fridge Freezer represents the latest in portable freezer-fridge technology and features, including a Danfoss compressor with smart electronic control to enable rapid cool-down to the target temperature, cooling setting based on the exact target temperature (in Celsius or Fahrenheit) rather than 1, 2, 3, etc. dial settings and experience, integral thermometer that can display in either Celsius or Fahrenheit, an integral battery monitor with three different settings that will shut down the Fridge Freezer if the vehicle's battery depletes to a certain voltage level and turn on the Fridge Freezer if the voltage rises to a certain level, the ability to run on 12/24V DC or 100-240V AC power and the power cords to run on both power sources, a 12/24V DC plug with detachable fitting that can be fitted to Merit/Hella sockets as well as standard cigarette-lighter sockets, a removable heavy-duty lid that swivels on stainless steel hinges and does not detach inadvertently, a cam-lock latch for the lid, a recessed digital control panel, recessed steel handles that double as tie-down points, rubber feet to secure the Fridge Freezer in place, steel cabinet sides to withstand heavy use, rear clips to prevent inadvertent disconnection of the power cables, reversible basket to segregate the contents of the unit or to create one large area for storage of longer items, a detachable partition for the basket, an integrated evaporator to simplify cleaning, an integrated drain plug to facilitate draining, a dairy/fruit compartment that is designed to hold its contents at slightly higher temperatures than inside the basket, 72-can total interior capacity (60-can capacity in the basket compartment and 12-can capacity in the dairy/fruit cooling cabinet behind the basket), internal LED light that turns off when the lid is closed, and a three-year warranty. External dimensions are H20" x W15" x D28", so the ARB Fridge Freezer is pretty much the same size as an Engel 45 Freezer Fridge but with substantially greater capacity and more useful layout. We are extremely impressed with the thoughtful design and superb execution of this unit.


Herb
Really take a look at the Engle and the National Luna's. I like ARB products, but chose the Engle because negative reviews and feedback on the ARB Fridge/Freezers. From my research they did not seem as durable. But regardless of what you choose. Any of these Fridge/Freezers will be a significant upgrade from the Norcold.
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:40 PM   #14
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

My latest;

1) The Isotherm Cruise 65 is so close to fitting it hurts, but my Norcold is mounted to the edges of the cabinet material (MDF?) and not to a hole cut out of a sheet of MDF, so there's no way to enlarge the hole. I'll keep brainstorming, though if I find a way to shoehorn it in there, I'll have to reroute some cabling/wires that run through the area.
2) From what I've read, ARB fridges (at least the older model) are rebadged Engels so there shouldn't be any reliability difference.
3) I had Truck Fridge send me a drawing of their TF65 model fridge. It is the exact same drawing as the Isotherm Cruise 65 fridge, including the exact same dimensions. Interesting.
4) From what I've found so far, the build-your-own-box Isotherm parts are more expensive than an entire fridge. It would be interesting to gut the Norcold of it's compressor, evaporator, electronics and turn it into an Isotherm that I know would fit.
5) National Luna 12V ice chests are NICE, but as pricey as they are nice.
6) I've seen some Military surplus, 60 quart blood storage fridges packed into a Hardigg case along with enough rechargeable batteries to keep temps stable for 48 hours without power. Would be a great option, but they weight 142lbs empty!


Herb
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Old 11-09-2009, 07:49 PM   #15
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

Herb,

My Norcold was loud. I took out and found it was the compressor that was vibrating and making the noise. I tried a couple of different rubber mounts for the compressor with limited success. Finally, I simply bolted it solidly to the refrig and it go quiet. Go figure.

While it was out I also covered the whole exterior (not the door) with 1/2" foil backed foam insulation. That made it a very snug fit in the opening, but it went back in place. Now, it runs less and more importantly, it runs quiet. I am not a sound sleeper, but I can sleep next to it.

Maybe improving the Norcold is a simpler option.

Mike
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:45 PM   #16
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

I like #4. Of course having a fridge is a big part of the SMB for me and I'd like to get an Engle to use on the back tray to increase the space.

I'm not familiar with what the inside of the transformer cabinet is like, but there is absolutely no way to spend the money making something better fit? Can you take some photos? Then we can all brainstorm with you (although it's easier to brainstorm when it's someone else's van and money!)
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:51 PM   #17
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

I'd like to chime in with my experience with the Norcold (DC0051), which is the 12 volt unit.

In general it works well, but I've had three episodes where it would not cool down below 50-52 degrees. I pulled it and two of three times it worked fine on the bench, but once it still would not cool down. I have a 10A, 12 volt supply, which under load gives the frig about 13.5 volts.

There is a small fan on the back of the unit that, according to the manual, should kick on at about 95 degrees. I put this to the test several days ago by moving the frig into my sauna, which I was heating slowly to see when the fan would kick on. The fan came on at 135 degrees, and by that time the coils on the back were almost too hot to touch. Not a good environment for the unit to work properly. The frig ran and cooled fine after I pulled it from the sauna. I want to do the test again, but have not had the time.

So in each case its' obvious that the frig did not lose the refrigerant (c134 I believe), and the compressor works correctly. I'm thinking it must be getting too hot behind the frig. As is typical with the SMB installation, there is a 1/2" gap across the bottom of the frig, and a 1.5" space across the top (and there was 3" behind the frig). If the fan does not kick on, then the natural convection is not enough. By the way, the fan (which is a 24 volt fan, but is fed with a 16.6 volt DC output from the circuit board) is too quiet to hear over the noise of the compressor. In addition, the temperature sensor for the fan must be on the PC board, which is in a metal box on top of the frig, because the sensor is not on the fan nor along the wires. If that is the case, then there will be a long lag time for the PC board box and its contents to be heated enough by the convection current from the back coils.

I am going to try one or more of the following: add a small LED to the fan circuit so I can see if and when it is on, maybe install a small switch for the fan [on, off, auto], or maybe install some other additional fan. I figure it's worth a try.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:09 PM   #18
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

Mike, considering my Norcold stays on 100% of the time, and cools 0% of the time, I guess any improvement would have to be an improvement. It already has a layer of Reflectix over it, and it's not the noise of the unit, it's the fact it doesn't cool at all. Left it on for about 14 hours, luckily while I was on shore power, and it was still room temperature.

Jage, I'll try to pull it back out sometime this week and take some pics of the cabinet. I'm still going to dig around a little more on the Isotherm build-your-own parts and see if there isn't a more economical way to get the parts I need. I wouldn't mind at all taking some power tools to my Norcold to perform a Nocoldectomy.

BACKRDS, thanks for the info. FWIW, I don't have open space above or below the fridge, but before anyone starts jumping up and down and talking about airflow, the "back" of the Transformer cabinet is more or less completely open. Again, pics will help show this when I take some.


Herb
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:59 AM   #19
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

I have an engle 45. It is expensive, but there is no doubt it's well made. I had buyers remorse until it was delivered. But actually seeing it "in person", the cost is justified. Not that it's alwaysthe best choice, just that it's not overpriced.
As a second unit, the engle is great as a fridge or a freezer. But in it's standard config. it can't be both - that's a disadvantage. But there is an extension that goes on top that provides a continuum from hard freeze on the bottom to "vegetable drawer" temps (~45 degrees F) on the top. Look at in on the engle site.
There are fridge/freeze drawer units for boats that might fit the Norcold space. Also, the components to make your own fridge are available. These even have charged lines.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:47 AM   #20
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Re: 12V fridge vs. 12V ice chest

Herb,

Actually I meant improving a new Norcold that fits in the opening.

Obviously you need to replace it with something. And many of us have good working Norcolds.

Mike
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