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Old 01-18-2021, 03:54 PM   #1
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Electrical Plan Check (For Ground Up Build)

Hey everyone,
I am in the works on a ground up build (linked here) and I am getting to the point where I need to start running electrical. Before I start buying wiring and components I figured I would post up my rough plan along with my wiring diagram I have put together to get any inputs on either the components or the wiring diagram. I know some of you on here have much more knowledge than I do when it comes to electrical work, so I just wanted to tap into that collective knowledge if possible. I have done vehicle electrical and house electrical work in the past, but this is by far the most intensive electrical project I will be taking on. So with that being said I am open to any criticism or critiques.
Thanks in advance!

Components list:
- Batteries:
2 x 100AH 12v LiFePO4 Battle Born
- DC/DC Charger: Undecided
Option 1: Sterling Power DC Battery to Battery 30Amps
Option 2: Sterling Power DC Battery to Battery 60Amps
Option 3: Victron Orion-TR 12v/12v-30A Isolated Charger
- Inverter/Charge: Undecided
Option 1: Xantrex Freedom XC 2000W/80A
Option 2: Xantrex Freedom XC PRO 2000W/100A
Option 3: Victron Multiplus Compact 12V/2000W/80-50A
- Battery Monitor:
Victron MNV-712 Smart
- Solar Controller:
Victron BlueSolar MPPT 100/30 Charge Controller
- Solar Panels Unknown (most likely it will be a while till we do these)
Any Suggestion???
- Distribution
WFCO WF-8930/50 Series Distribution Panel W/ 12AC/15DC Branches
I have started going through and calculating rough wire sizes based of manuals and amp draw. I used some online calculators and other forums/blog post to compare to and this is what I have come up with so far. I errored on the side of caution and went for bigger wire for most things. Again feel free to let me know if you see anything that could be a problem.

Wiring Diagram



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Old 01-18-2021, 06:23 PM   #2
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Just did my system and used the KISAE DMT 1250 DC to DC charger and the Balimar monitor. They are simple and function well- the setup was great. LenSun Solar Panels- folding and portable. All from the recommendations of Scalf77
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michisurfer View Post
Just did my system and used the KISAE DMT 1250 DC to DC charger and the Balimar monitor. They are simple and function well- the setup was great. LenSun Solar Panels- folding and portable. All from the recommendations of Scalf77
Thanks for the recommendations! I'll have to speed some time looking into those options.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:19 AM   #4
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Battery
Looking at you layout with induction cooktop, and electric water heater are you sure 200 AH of battery is enough? Lithionics makes G31 size battery that has 125 A rating, it is slightly smaller in size than the Battle Born. I see that you are mounting the Battle Borns on end, Lithionics only allows terminals up installations. Lithionics also has other sizes if you need to increase the bank size. if interested in checking out that route PM me, I am a Lithionics dealer.
DC to DC
Sterling is a standard in DC to DC units, comes at a cost. Unfortunately, you need to choose what size you need up front. One of the positives of a Lithium battery is the capacity for a high charge rate.
As mentioned, a good low-cost unit is the KISAE DMT1250, it would give you a solar controller in the same unit. One nice feature is that you can configure the output in 5-amp increments, so if your alternator cannot handle 50 amps, you can configure it down with out going to a new unit. It will also throttle itself down in output if the alternator appears not to be keeping up, it does a check every 3 mins. No BMS disconnect is needed, as the KISAR gets operating power from the battery BMS shutdown so does KISAE. They also have a remote display, that can be useful, although it takes a little getting used to on figuring out what you are looking at.
Victron also has a couple of units, the real difference of the isolated non-isolated is that grounds are not tied together in the unit on the isolated. This is useful if you are using shunts to get current data going in and out of the units. If not the non-isolated is a little cheaper. The Victron also donít give you any current data, not horrible as you will have a battery monitor. Another feature of the Victron is that you can parallel units, so if 30 amp isnít enough, and you find you have enough alternator then you can just parallel another unit to get 60 amps.
Inverter Charger
Not much difference in Xantrex XC and XC Pro , unless you want the extra 20 amps of charger. The Pro also comes with RV-C or Canbus for RVís, which you probably don not need. The Bluetooth remote panel is kind of a pain in that you must pair each time you connect. But the extra cost is worth it when you go to program the unit.
I do not have any real experience with Victron inverters but based on their other equipment it is probably a strong choice. This would be even stronger if you went with Victron for your other choices. All your devices could be connected to with the Victron connect app.

If looking for a Magnum MS2000 Inverter, I have one in the classified section
Good solid unit, with a transformer versus the high frequency switchers.

Battery Monitor
The Victron 712 is a great monitor, again it would make even more sense if your other equipment were all Victron.
Solar Controller
Again, a good choice, especially if staying in the Victron lane. Obviously the KISAE DC to DC has a Solar Charger built in.


Panels
A good standby choice is the Grape Solar 190 watt panel, it is made in America and can be purchased at Home Depot online and delivered to store for free.
You are in Bend, so you could support local and go with the Zamp line. One of the units I like is the Zamp 190 dual Mode. This unit is actually two panels in one, so if you need to worry about shading you can configure the two in parallel. If looking for higher output voltage configure in series.
I would also look at wiring in an aux panel outlet. There are many options for portable units that allow you to park in the shade and still get some solar power. The only caveat is that you want to keep the panel voltage as close as possible.
If cost really is not a roadblock look at panels with SunPower cells

As far as the diagram, a quick glance;
I might go larger wire for the DC to DC and Solar charger.

Do you really need all the breakers, a proper sized fuse will generally do the job, at a cheaper cost? A breaker for the distribution panel is always good.

12 Aux Sockets generally are rated at 15 amps, you might be thinking of USB chargers for your rating.

Most Inverter manufacturers want a Class T Fuse for the inverter.

The duplex wire for your lighting is oversized. You do not have to use duplex for your DC runs, I generally just stick with marine wire in wire loom.

You might want to add a CO detector.

For the AC triplex wire, although it is OK with RVIA, I generally go with marine stranded triplex.


-greg
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalf77 View Post
Battery
Looking at you layout with induction cooktop, and electric water heater are you sure 200 AH of battery is enough? Lithionics makes G31 size battery that has 125 A rating, it is slightly smaller in size than the Battle Born. I see that you are mounting the Battle Borns on end, Lithionics only allows terminals up installations. Lithionics also has other sizes if you need to increase the bank size. if interested in checking out that route PM me, I am a Lithionics dealer.
Battery:
Looking back on my layout I think I added the water heater to the wrong section as I plan on doing something similar to Boywonder with the 12v heating coil. The plan is to mainly run it when driving to our destination, which hopefully will cut down on how much power we need. As for the induction I plan to have it for when we can't cook outside, so realistically it probably won't get used on the daily. So with that being said I hope that 200AH is enough, but I will be PM you because I would be happy to get some other options and info about Lithionics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalf77 View Post
DC to DC
Sterling is a standard in DC to DC units, comes at a cost. Unfortunately, you need to choose what size you need up front. One of the positives of a Lithium battery is the capacity for a high charge rate.
As mentioned, a good low-cost unit is the KISAE DMT1250, it would give you a solar controller in the same unit. One nice feature is that you can configure the output in 5-amp increments, so if your alternator cannot handle 50 amps, you can configure it down with out going to a new unit. It will also throttle itself down in output if the alternator appears not to be keeping up, it does a check every 3 mins. No BMS disconnect is needed, as the KISAR gets operating power from the battery BMS shutdown so does KISAE. They also have a remote display, that can be useful, although it takes a little getting used to on figuring out what you are looking at.
Victron also has a couple of units, the real difference of the isolated non-isolated is that grounds are not tied together in the unit on the isolated. This is useful if you are using shunts to get current data going in and out of the units. If not the non-isolated is a little cheaper. The Victron also donít give you any current data, not horrible as you will have a battery monitor. Another feature of the Victron is that you can parallel units, so if 30 amp isnít enough, and you find you have enough alternator then you can just parallel another unit to get 60 amps.
DC to DC:
I haven't had a chance to look into the KISAE DMT1250yet, but will have to do some more digging as it seems like a pretty neat set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalf77 View Post
Inverter Charger
Not much difference in Xantrex XC and XC Pro , unless you want the extra 20 amps of charger. The Pro also comes with RV-C or Canbus for RVís, which you probably don not need. The Bluetooth remote panel is kind of a pain in that you must pair each time you connect. But the extra cost is worth it when you go to program the unit.
I do not have any real experience with Victron inverters but based on their other equipment it is probably a strong choice. This would be even stronger if you went with Victron for your other choices. All your devices could be connected to with the Victron connect app.

If looking for a Magnum MS2000 Inverter, I have one in the classified section
Good solid unit, with a transformer versus the high frequency switchers.
Inverter Charger:
I am glad you confirmed for me that the difference between the two Xantrex models is really only the 20amp charger. I thought that is what it was, but couldn't tell if I was missing something. I have gone back and fourth on whether or not all Victron is worth it, but a fully connected system does seem to be a good idea to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalf77 View Post
Battery Monitor
The Victron 712 is a great monitor, again it would make even more sense if your other equipment were all Victron.
Solar Controller
Again, a good choice, especially if staying in the Victron lane. Obviously the KISAE DC to DC has a Solar Charger built in.
Battery Monitor:
Thank you for the input! Glad to know I am somewhat on the right track.

Solar Controller:
This was my thought as well. If I am finding I am leaning toward 90% of the system being Victron I might as well just go all the way with their components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalf77 View Post
Panels
A good standby choice is the Grape Solar 190 watt panel, it is made in America and can be purchased at Home Depot online and delivered to store for free.
You are in Bend, so you could support local and go with the Zamp line. One of the units I like is the Zamp 190 dual Mode. This unit is actually two panels in one, so if you need to worry about shading you can configure the two in parallel. If looking for higher output voltage configure in series.
I would also look at wiring in an aux panel outlet. There are many options for portable units that allow you to park in the shade and still get some solar power. The only caveat is that you want to keep the panel voltage as close as possible.
If cost really is not a roadblock look at panels with SunPower cells
Panels:
I will look more into the Grape Solar 190. I had looked at Zamp a while ago and like that they are local, so that is who I was leaning towards. I will have to look more into the Zamp 190 dual Mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalf77 View Post
As far as the diagram, a quick glance;
I might go larger wire for the DC to DC and Solar charger.

Do you really need all the breakers, a proper sized fuse will generally do the job, at a cheaper cost? A breaker for the distribution panel is always good.

12 Aux Sockets generally are rated at 15 amps, you might be thinking of USB chargers for your rating.

Most Inverter manufacturers want a Class T Fuse for the inverter.

The duplex wire for your lighting is oversized. You do not have to use duplex for your DC runs, I generally just stick with marine wire in wire loom.

You might want to add a CO detector.

For the AC triplex wire, although it is OK with RVIA, I generally go with marine stranded triplex.


-greg
Diagram Notes:
Thank you for looking through this! When I was doing the calculation on the DC to Dc and solar charger I thought it looked small. I must have inputted it in wrong. I will upsize both of those.

That makes perfect sense about the breakers. I was using some diagrams for reference that used breakers, but if I can save some money without compromising the system that seems like a better idea.

Shoot! That is exactly what I did on those 12v sockets. I will adjust my diagram and check my wire sizes.

Looking at this again it looks like I totally missed that. I will adjust this to a Class T fuse.

Again this was something that I saw referenced on a few other sites, and thought it might make things easier to run. Do you happen to have a recommendation on the best place to buy marine grade wire?

I had planned on adding a CO detector, but forgot to include it in my layout.

I should have noted that, but I had planned on using all marine grade stranded tinned wire.

Thank you Greg for all the help and taking for taking the time to not only reply to my thread, but all the other information you have put out on this forum! It all has been so incredible helpful. Hopefully I don't look like I am completely out of my depth on this stuff and with help from people like you I can get a pretty solid system together.
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Old 01-19-2021, 06:04 PM   #6
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For wire check out bestboatwire They have wire and other electrical needs. There prices are usually pretty good. I also use Fisheries Supply online , located in Seattle I usually get a delivery the next day, here in Portland area. And to be honest sometimes Amazon is an OK price for anchor marine wire. I'm usually purchasing spools versus a per foot basis though.


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Old 01-20-2021, 11:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalf77 View Post
For wire check out bestboatwire They have wire and other electrical needs. There prices are usually pretty good. I also use Fisheries Supply online , located in Seattle I usually get a delivery the next day, here in Portland area. And to be honest sometimes Amazon is an OK price for anchor marine wire. I'm usually purchasing spools versus a per foot basis though.


-greg
Great, thanks for the recommendation!
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Old 01-23-2021, 10:55 PM   #8
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Solar Panels Unknown (most likely it will be a while till we do these)


Get the biggest panel you can fit on your roof. I had a 240 watt on my roof for 7 years, I finally outgrew it. It was maxing out at 9 amps in winter and about 12 amps in summer.

I recently got a 365 watt LG panel, that panel is a beast. In winter I'm getting anywhere from 12 to 15 amps. I have 2 battery banks a 220ah lifepo4, and a 312ah li-ion pack. The panel can easily keep both banks topped off and still let me use other devices during the day.

Today it was overcast and raining most of the day and I was still able to top off my lifepo4 pack to 100 percent something my 240 watt panel wouldn't be able to do.
A large panel would be more suited for your 30 amp victron mppt. 200 watts would max out at 10 amps in the best conditions (example summer with the sun overhead).
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Old 01-29-2021, 11:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyjoe101 View Post
Solar Panels Unknown (most likely it will be a while till we do these)


Get the biggest panel you can fit on your roof. I had a 240 watt on my roof for 7 years, I finally outgrew it. It was maxing out at 9 amps in winter and about 12 amps in summer.

I recently got a 365 watt LG panel, that panel is a beast. In winter I'm getting anywhere from 12 to 15 amps. I have 2 battery banks a 220ah lifepo4, and a 312ah li-ion pack. The panel can easily keep both banks topped off and still let me use other devices during the day.

Today it was overcast and raining most of the day and I was still able to top off my lifepo4 pack to 100 percent something my 240 watt panel wouldn't be able to do.
A large panel would be more suited for your 30 amp victron mppt. 200 watts would max out at 10 amps in the best conditions (example summer with the sun overhead).
Thanks for the info and recommendations!
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:25 PM   #10
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Figured I would do another post just to get any additional feedback as well as have some record for the next person that might be looking to do something similar. Thanks again to everyone for the help and suggestions!

I updated the wiring diagram to take in account the notes provided by Scalf77 and think I have made my final decision for components. See below.

Final Components list:
- Batteries:
2 x 100AH 12v LiFePO4 Battle Born
- DC/DC Charger:
Victron Orion-TR 12v/12v-30A Isolated Charger
- Inverter/Charge:
Xantrex Freedom XC 2000W/80A
- Battery Monitor:
Victron MNV-712 Smart
- Solar Controller:
Victron BlueSolar MPPT 100/30 Charge Controller
- Distribution
WFCO WF-8930/50 Series Distribution Panel W/ 12AC/15DC Branches
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