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Old 09-27-2016, 12:12 PM   #71
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So the alternator only does Bulk charging. Will a solar panel using a Zamp controller finish charging the battery to full capacity?

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Old 10-01-2016, 06:57 PM   #72
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Keeping this thread in play.

TO WIT:
I have a new question round, based on observed measurements with the fully-charged house battery, placed back into van. (Battery was bench-trickle-charged to a comfortable resting voltage of 12.73 volts, which remained stable and unwavering for 4 or 5 days).

Q: What is the maximum/peak voltage output of the average E-series alternator?

I ask because of two things:
1) my SMB still has a SurePower isolator in place, a model which is reported to have approximately a 0.7volt "diode efficiency drop" between it and whatever it isolates
and
2) I have observed up to 14.8volts at the house battery while the van is running in some instances, and this is (from doing a lot of reading) an ideal "bulk charge" voltage to hit

Doing the basic math (14.8v) + (0.7v) = 15.5volts that the alternator must be pumping out during these instances.

Does this:
A) sound possible
B) sound like normal operation
and finally does it:
C) sound like the starter battery is getting subjected to "too much voltage" during those instances? (assuming since it isn't on the "other end" of the 0.7volt-dropped isolator circuit like the house battery is, it is seeing the full 15.5volt output of the alternator?)

Lastly --- is my eye "not truly on the ball" with this line of questioning?
(Bearing in mind the total "charge amperage" getting to the house battery is a big part of the real story, anyway? (Amp-hours back IN the house battery, vs. amp-hours coming back OUT of the battery = total understanding of what percentage of full the battery truly is))

It just seems strange that the possibility exists for the alternator to be making 15.5volts, and possibly subjecting the starter battery to *too much* voltage. I know we talked about how "as a battery nears a greater state of charge, its resistance increases and it accepts less current flow," but it still seems like the battery has a 15.5volt potential applied to its terminals during the instances that I'm seeing 14.8 at the house battery.....and I'm still trying to understand if that's bad. Admittedly I didn't measure the actual observed voltage at the starter battery when I measured 14.8 at the house battery, that's gotta happen next.

(Big apologies, btw, if it seems I'm a slow learner on some of this....don't schoolteachers go with the principle that "big concepts usually have to be repeated three times before they sink in"? )

Thanks again guys!!!
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:48 AM   #73
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Okay, as a quick follow-up to what I asked yesterday:

Last night I started the van and immediately took voltage readings at both the starter battery AND the house battery, simultaneously. (House battery readings were limited to being observed on the plug-in/wall-matic voltage meter, but I used the one that has been demonstrated to be accurate.)

The results sure puzzle me.
At the SAME TIME, engine idling, these are the voltages measured at the two batteries:

Starter (Engine) Battery:

House Battery:

Again:
* Both batteries are obviously taking their voltage from the same alternator
* The house battery is getting its juice "filtered" through the SurePower isolator, which has the 0.7 volt "diode drop" before the house battery even sees juice.

So does this indeed mean that the alternator is kicking out 15.4 volts in this instance? (14.7 volts at house battery) + (0.7 volt isolator diode drop) = 15.4 volts?

And yet....starter battery is somehow only seeing 14.3 volts?
I am once again puzzled.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:56 AM   #74
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I have the same isollator and the same puzzle if that helps. I have seen as high as 15 volts at the house battery at start up which than goes down to 14.8.

It goes back to my worry about long trips. Even if the amps at 4 is low enough, 14.8 is not what I am looking for as battery maintaining.
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:33 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcnick View Post
I have the same isollator and the same puzzle if that helps. I have seen as high as 15 volts at the house battery at start up which than goes down to 14.8.

It goes back to my worry about long trips. Even if the amps at 4 is low enough, 14.8 is not what I am looking for as battery maintaining.
Ok xcnick --- despite the confusion surrounding our systems, I still don't think you or I necessarily have to worry about continuous too-high voltage at the house battery on long trips, even with our "voodoo box" SurePower isolators

Q: Have you measured what your house-battery voltage is after the van runs for a good while? When my van is first fired up, like yours, it reads as high as 14.8, but then usually quickly settles back a bit, and then drops significantly back within half an hour.

For instance: When I drove to work earlier this week with the van, I noted house battery showed 14.8 right after van startup, throttling back to 14.4 shortly after that, and then when I arrived at work (about 25-30 mins of driving), the house battery meter showed 13.5 volts. (All while van still running of course.)
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:35 AM   #76
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I only ran it for 1/2 hour, so thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-02-2016, 01:50 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcnick View Post
I am still working the Todd Engineering thing. I added a switch so I can manually set it to the higher 14 volt charge or 13 volt float charge when sitting for a long time. If the jumper is set on yours it is probably on 13 volt float and is why you never get a full charge

I have added the disconnect switch. I prefer this to leaving it on float. (running two 27s in parallel.) So mostly i leave it on 14 volt and then just fully disconnect after charging so I don't worry about things draining it.
xcnick --- just went back and re-read this bit you posted about your Todd Engineering charger (same as I have.)

Can you better detail how you added this switch to the Todd Engineering charger, in order to make it charge at the higher 14+ volt "bulk charging" rate while the van is on shore power?

I don't recall what voltage is seen at the house battery when the van is plugged in to shore power, but I think it might be the lower "float" voltage you mentioned of around 13.5volts. So (following your line of thinking), even if I leave the van plugged in overnight, if the house battery was previously run down significantly then it won't be seeing enough voltage to properly recharge.

Thanks!
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Old 10-02-2016, 02:03 PM   #78
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I don't have the van or manuals in front of me right now. If my description doesn't work, tell me and I will dig further.

On the front there are two little screws like in a terminal strip. The jumper is just like a piece from a terminal strip that makes both common. To make a switch I just connected a single pole single throw from one screw to the other.
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Old 10-02-2016, 02:16 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcnick View Post
I don't have the van or manuals in front of me right now. If my description doesn't work, tell me and I will dig further.

On the front there are two little screws like in a terminal strip. The jumper is just like a piece from a terminal strip that makes both common. To make a switch I just connected a single pole single throw from one screw to the other.
Ok thanks, I'll do some digging too. I don't believe I have any documentation or manuals for the Todd charger (and they're out of business), so I'm winging it here a bit.

But it sounds like your wired-in switch effectively "forces the hand" of the charger and keeps it in bulk-charge phase at all times? (Prevents it from ever backing its voltage off and dropping into "float" charge range?) Seems you would need to really stay on top of things and make sure not to overcharge?
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Old 10-02-2016, 02:24 PM   #80
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It never backs off on it's own. It is not a two stage. By design you can only choose one or the other by inserting or removing the jumper. It is a pain to get to the jumper so the switch makes it easy enough that I can decide. However, yes, if charging at 14 volts I set my alarm to go in there and back it down.

I was just looking at images for PC-45 and don't see the terminals on the few pics I found. Maybe some aren't (dual voltage)?
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