Interesting Little Electrical Puzzle

Glider · 07-23-2017, 07:16 PM

I fired up my generator today as I was driving home, with the intention of giving it it's monthly exercise. And something new happened.

With both the generator and the van's engine running, the battery light on the instrument panel came on. That has never happened before. System voltage was fine: 13.9 on both the chassis side and 14.4 on the house side.

That led me to wonder if the separator was misbehaving.

I disconnected the cable between the separator and the house batteries. The instrument panel light went off and stayed off. Without the separator in the system, there were no issues.

Separator: SurePower 1315-200; circa 2006; built well prior to the recall of 2011 and the serial number is not in the recall range.

Hypothesis
The separator is doing something strange when both the alternator and the converter are putting 12v into the system.

Observation
It appears that SMB wired my separator backwards.

The positive cable from the chassis battery is connected to the left post. The positive cable from the house batteries was connected to the right post. Based on the label, it looks like it should be the other way around.

Conclusion
There's a good chance my separator is fried. I'm thinking that if I replace it--and wire the new one correctly--my dashboard light will come on no more.

What do y'all think?

Thanks!

arctictraveller · 07-23-2017, 07:22 PM

I think I'd give Sure Power a call and see what they have to say.

freeagent · 07-23-2017, 07:58 PM

I don't have one, but I'm pretty sure the 1315-200 is a bi-directional separator which means it will close when it sees 13.2v from either side. In a bi-directional scenario it technically doesn't really matter which bank is hooked up to which side. (although I agree that hooking it up to coincide with the diagram would be a good idea for identification purposes and troubleshooting down the road)

Glider · 07-23-2017, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeagent

I don't have one, but I'm pretty sure the 1315-200 is a bi-directional separator which means it will close when it sees 13.2v from either side. In a bi-directional scenario it technically doesn't really matter which bank is hooked up to which side. (although I agree that hooking it up to coincide with the diagram would be a good idea for identification purposes and troubleshooting down the road)

The relay is supposed to latch when the voltage exceeds 13.2 on either post, as I understand it. From that perspective, I suspect that you are correct that it doesn't matter which bank is hooked up to which side.

Given that the battery light comes on when the separator is connected, and not when the separator is disconnected, I am currently sticking to my conclusion that the separator is toast.

**daveb** · 07-23-2017, 09:13 PM

Those separators stuck on me a lot. And the electronics suck IMO. Sorry to be blunt but the Blue Sea magnetic latch (ACR's) are much better. Again just my opinion when dealing with both.

Glider · 07-23-2017, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveb

Those separators stuck on me a lot. And the electronics suck IMO. Sorry to be blunt but the Blue Sea magnetic latch (ACR's) are much better. Again just my opinion when dealing with both.

I've been thinking that Blue Sea might be a nice way to go. Do you know if there is a Blue Sea separator that would allow me to bridge the house and chassis batteries for engine starting in the event the chassis battery is accidentally drained?

**daveb** · 07-23-2017, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glider

I've been thinking that Blue Sea might be a nice way to go. Do you know if there is a Blue Sea separator that would allow me to bridge the house and chassis batteries for engine starting in the event the chassis battery is accidentally drained?

I'm using the 7622 with a manual control remote switch and even though my separator has the same controls, it's mounted in a difficult spot to reach. Yes you can use it to jump start provided the bus run is sized correctly. The remote switch is mounted above my side barn doors. Easy access to full control and functions as a trouble annunciator as well. You might want to research it to see if it is something you can use. Kind of pricey.

Glider · 07-23-2017, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveb

I'm using the 7622 with a manual control remote switch and even though my separator has the same controls, it's mounted in a difficult spot to reach. Yes you can use it to jump start provided the bus run is sized correctly. The remote switch is mounted above my side barn doors. Easy access to full control and functions as a trouble annunciator as well. You might want to research it to see if it is something you can use. Kind of pricey.

It looks like the Blue Sea 7622 is the one for me. Thanks, Dave.

Scalf77 · 07-24-2017, 08:03 AM

The only area where having the inputs should cause any issues is when using the start assist function, in that case it would have to look at which battery the voltage level of each battery, the house should be higher than house. It is also possible that this cause some leakage as one side has to the priority to run the controller.

I don't recall that I ever tested that specifically, but in any case, I don't think it would matter. I suspect your battery light comes on because with the voltage regulator of the alternator, is not what it thinks it should be.

If the separator was working correctly, the relay would be connected and it really would not have mattered what input is wired to. You, do report two different voltages , which means the separator would have been disconnected, in a condition where it should have been connected. I am probably just reading that in correctly.

Not sure what converter you are using, but I have had my vehicle running while still plugged in, multiple times, and no issue. And of course many of us have that have solar have multiple sources at the same time.

So before jumping ship to 7622 (which there are plenty of good reasons to do so, outside of this) You may want to do further investigation. I don't think that the miss wire would have caused damage, I have a perfectly good surepower in my garage that you are welcome to use for further diagnosis, if you like.

A couple of things I might try would be to see if when I plug into clean shore power does the same thing happen, if not there could be some noise from your generator getting through the system.

Also, you can add the switch to ground to the surepower and thus be able to disconnect when running in this condition.

-greg

boywonder · 07-24-2017, 08:49 AM

I'd also vote for replacing the Surepower 1315 with a Blue Sea product, however, as already mentioned, your existing separator may be functioning correctly.

It should be easy enough to convince yourself that the separator is functioning normally with a 12V source and a multimeter.

The 7622 style separators make combining batteries (and doing a few other things) really easy; the 7610 ACRs also make this easy with the "add a battery" kit at a bit less $$ if you've got a space for the large switch.