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Old 11-25-2008, 02:30 PM   #11
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I hate to hijack or resuscitate a now resolved thread but much of what has been written here is relevant to my question:

I have the same TripLite 2000W inverter/charger. When I plug into shore power it trips the shore power GFI. This GFI is new and has adequately carried a 13000 btu a/c unit during the Summer. The shore power cables are new 30 amp cable plugged into a new 12 gauge 15 amp 75" extension.

The sequence works like this: Inverter set to Charge, van 110v OFF, and shore power disconnected. The plug in shore power causing GFI to trip immediately. Disconnect shore power, reset GFI and set Inverter to Inverter/Charge on the remote panel. Plug in shore power, voltage light flashes, initially yellow but quickly turns green; Charge light is solid green; then after 15 seconds or so switch over to Charge only on remote panel. This time the GFI holds and everything works. Van power is switched, M/V or a/c (not simultaneously) operate and all is well until the next time I reconnect if I do not go through the 2 step process.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

A couple of other factoids: the same sequence can be performed successfully using the switch on the inverter with the same success; the shore power has run the Intellichoice charger for a couple of years with no problem and plenty of Starcool a/c (now Danhard); batteries are fully charged but show 13.9V at the SMB install and 13.8V for the Van which is a diesel so has two batteries; DIP switch B4 is set to the Low Charge or UP position.

One last question - what does the battery balance feature do as represented by DIP switch B3?

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Old 11-26-2008, 01:35 AM   #12
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While there have been issues with certain types of GFCI outlets not being "compatible" with the Tripp Lite Inverter, that doesn't sound like your problem since you can operate your unit if you switch it "on" a certain way.

I'm going to assume the extension cord you're using is seventy five feet long, plus the twenty five foot shore power cord, for a total of 100'. The charger built into the Tripp Lite can draw 20 amps at 120VAC. I believe the length of the extension cord, combined with the shore power cord and the large current draw of the charger, are factors in causing the GFCI in your house to trip. The reason it doesn't trip if you already have the Inverter set to "Auto" or "Invert/Charge", is because you are initially providing 120VAC to the Inverter without it requiring a large sudden surge of power, as is the case when switched to "Charge".

Confirm that DIP switches B1 and B2 are "up", as this will limit the amount of current being used by the charger. DIP B3 is a momentary DIP switch that is used to activate the "Equalization Mode" of the charger. This mode increases the charger voltage to a point where the battery temperature is raised to "de-sulfate" the cells. You want to be careful when performing an equalization.

I hope this helps.

John K.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:16 AM   #13
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I can confirm that B1 and B2 are UP. Actually all Bs are UP and all As are DOWN.

And thanks to the forum I do understand the deep cycle equalization switch.

I also found this in another thread on the subject of GFIs:
"Yes, the inverter does this. In a normal house the ground and neutral are separate and the GFCI looks at the current flowing through the ground wire and trips if it exceeds a small (less than deadly) amount.

In the van (or boat) there isn't an external ground to be had, so the inverter ties the neutral and ground wires together, which is not as safe as a separate ground but much better than no connection at all. The house GFCI sees the connection between ground and neutral because some current flows over the ground and it promptly breaks the circuit.

I installed an aftermarket inverter in my van and I can trip the house GFCI every time if I turn it on while the van is plugged in. I recently installed a solar panel, so I don't even plug in anymore.

Tad"

- which seems to explain what I am seeing. I also agree that the cable length does impact the charger draw but it seems that the draw is an instant thing that only happens on start with "Charge Only" engaged. I have yet to decipher the coding on the GFI as to whether its a 15 or 20 amp unit which an electrician friend advises are the only choices other than swapping it out for a non GFI socket.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlamgat
I also found this in another thread on the subject of GFIs:
"Yes, the inverter does this. In a normal house the ground and neutral are separate and the GFCI looks at the current flowing through the ground wire and trips if it exceeds a small (less than deadly) amount.

In the van (or boat) there isn't an external ground to be had, so the inverter ties the neutral and ground wires together, which is not as safe as a separate ground but much better than no connection at all. The house GFCI sees the connection between ground and neutral because some current flows over the ground and it promptly breaks the circuit.
Actually, that isn't correct. A GFCI measures both the hot and neutral currents and if it detects any difference between these, it trips the breaker. If there is a difference between the hot and neutral, it assumes the current is going somewhere that is shouldn't be. A ground is not even requred for operation. In older houses that are wired with 2 conductors and no grounds, a GFCI will work fine to protect the occupants.

I think John may be closer to correct with regard to a surge in current being the culpret. There are many problems trying to use a GFCI on motor circuits due to their high starting current. The voltage drop on 100' of 15amp cord may be inducing some strange currents also.

Good Luck
Steve
Electrician for 30 years, but I could still be wrong.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:02 PM   #15
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Your interpretation sounds more in line with my understanding which puts me back to square one. Especially as the start up load on this inverter/charger is nothing more than the charger alone - no motors. So I suspect now that there is a capacitor that has to be recharged on connection which momentarily loads the current draw. This would be why I could repeatedly reconnect as long as I do so with the inverter in the circuit as well as the charger. If I isolate the inverter and only have the charger on line, the GFI pops. Once connected I have successfully remained so with a start surge of the a/c at about 2000W.
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:35 PM   #16
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Are you sure it's a GFI breaker or is it a AFCI breaker? At night when you plug into a standard outlet you will see an arc and is why you're supposed to de-energize the cord before you plug it into the van. AFCI breaker are designed to open if an arc occurs. They are a PITA but serve a purpose. You said: Once connected I have successfully remained so with a start surge of the a/c at about 2000W. Have you tried to plug in with the air conditioner switched to the ON position? Something like a vacuum with it switched on before it's plugged in might do the same thing. If the breaker trips you probably have a AFCI and it's working correctly. My van has a Xantrex prosine and will throw an arc with nothing on in the van. Luckily I have a standard breaker that feeds my van.
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:06 AM   #17
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I am not sure I know the difference. Its one of those push-to-reset breakers that are mounted to the outlet plate vs. the regular breaker/gfi that's often found in the breaker switch box.

And yes I have noticed the arcing when I connected a similar outlet to the van in the same garage but a different circuit. Its not possible to see the arcing with the new inverter install because the gfi pops so rapidly. I have always been advised not to put power onto appliances with them switched on. SMB is quite specific about this as are other RV and even aircraft manufacturers, so I am loath to experiment by trying to plug in the van with the 110v circuit actuated and the a/c set to ON before the connection is made. I understand you point I think. Somewhat akin to trying to connect two water hoses together with the faucet open: if the outlet is open, its an easy connect. But if the outlet on the extension hose is closed, the water pressure makes joining them a messy business. Just like the arcing visible with an electrical connections. Is this an appropriate comparison?
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:34 AM   #18
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Try using something different that pulls some major amps. GFCI's don't get along with things that have motors at times, so you might try an electric heater set to high before you plug in (plug into the cord that goes to the breaker not into anything on the van). If the breaker trips it's probably an AFCI type breaker doing what it's supposed to do. That's provided you're correct that the van has something inside that causing a load like the capicator you were talking about. If the breaker is off before you plug in the van, turning the breaker on should not trip the reset button. If the breaker trips as soon as you turn it on, something else is going on.
Good luck.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:59 PM   #19
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I tried an electric 1500W heater. Using elements alone and with a circulation fan. No problem, no GFI trip. So ot seems the problem is the circuit on the inverter with nothing else activated that I suspect includes something...? I am going to call the Customer Service line on Monday.
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Old 11-30-2008, 05:23 PM   #20
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Hi,
My tripplite inverter/charger also trips a GFI plug. I asked an electrical engineer (and my father in law) about this when we were camping last week. He says that inverters produce radio emissions, and to meet FCC requirements the manufacturer usually reduces the emissions by placing a capacitor in the inverter circuit.

When you plug the inverter in, the capacitor charges and momentarily absorbs more current than returns to ground. This trips the GFI, though not always, because some GFI's trip faster than others, and some inverters have a smaller capacitor or reduce the radio noise without a capacitor.

He said that this is the most likely explanation, though he said there could also be something wrong in the van wiring that would also cause a GFI to trip.
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