Inverters & Battery Life Questions

[marret]

I was thinking portable power, but not the cheapest solution as mentioned.

There are some where you provide your own battery and can be built reasonably. This thread I started a while ago addresses options:
https://www.sportsmobileforum.com/fo...wer-26913.html

[Scalf77]

I actually don't think the idea is crazy, and actually not to far off from the possibility. I don't believe the current battery would not hold up, through to many cycles of actual use. So You would need to at least look to replace that with a hybrid start/deep cycle battery. The plan would be for the battery to take most of the brunt of use, the alternator will back fill and keep the voltage level up. Here is where taking a standard ford aux battery box, and wiring in a second deep cycle battery in parallel would be the plan B, to make this work.

The big problem is you will probably be in a outside environment, so the performance of the battery will come in to play. So while testing this in a nice summer time environment may see good results, you need to be conscience of performance degradation at different environments.

The next issue is can we provide some safety margins to protect the Van. Part of the beauty of the secondary house battery behind a ACR is that as the battery capacity dropped and the load became to high for the alternator to pick up the slack, the ACR would disconnect as the the voltage dropped. Since the alternator couldn't provide more current (limit of idle output) the voltage would drop below the threshold and the ACR disconnects. Being that your design goal is without a ACR, or possibly even second battery, the question becomes how do we provide that service. This could be done by a low voltage disconnect circuit, not impossible to find off the shelf, but the current size requirements may be the limiting factor.

The secondary thought, being that this is pretty much targeted as the inverter being the load, would be to make sure that the low voltage disconnect threshold was programable. They would generally be lower than what you would want to protect the van. If by raising that, you were able to duplicate the disconnect to save the van electronics and alternator. This would be efficient solution, as there would be no added circuitry. You may have to pay more for a inverter that supports that, it is fairly common, but depends on the thresholds they give you.

I would see if your trusted auto electrical guy can give you a good number for the power you will have in excess at idle. Remember to set that up as worst case condition you will see in the field while you are at idle and then you can start making decisions from there.

Inverter choice here could also be important. The dirtier output of a MSW inverter may actually use more DC power than a PSW. Also the efficiency band may not go through the hole power range, so sizing could also be important.

-greg

[JWA]

Wow----pretty amazing and well thought-out ideas for a single infrequent load---then again that's why I posted this question here in The Sportsmobile Forum!

As I read and ruminate I believe I'll be going with an inverter (2000 Watt minimum, don't think I'll need more capacity), outfit it with a set of properly attached alligator clamps and i/0 cable crimped eyelet ends bolted to the inverter. I'll do that work myself as I have the skills and tools to do so.

Once finished I'll be able to sit the inverter either on the dry ground or secured to the truck itself for the job, connect to the in-frame battery array, run a short extension cord to the tool and start the truck engine.

These are the cables and clamps I'll use:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...P8N11HNY&psc=1

And:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...JOY1D6H9&psc=1

Ordering the extra clamps will give me yet another somewhat heavy duty jumper cables about 12 feet long.

Once the job is finished I'll stow the inverter and cables away for the next job. I believe this scheme will give me the needed 120 VAC power, not affect my alternator/battery life and just about middle ground cost-wise. I'm considering the Krieger brand of inverter as one of my customer's sells and installs them pretty much daily. I'll be in contact with Krieger to get a better understanding of their warranty policy, specifically if I have an issue or failure can my vendor handle it in house? If not I'll maybe use the Don Rowe seller outfit?

The inverter of choice so far:

https://www.kriegermfg.com/product/kr2000/

Customers will be alerted I will now require keys (or access to them) when dispatched to one of their remote locations. I know sure as I live that'll be a problem but it falls on them to keep up their end of the bargain in order to assure the job is completed as they expect.

As a side note big trucks are heavily inspected where obscured vision due ANY windshield issues carries a fine and citation for the driver as well as a significant possibility of having the truck and load "red tagged" putting it out of service immediately. Explaining to a customer their load is late due what amounts to poor maintenance is a huge concern in that industry.

I do have another cut-out tool of lower power demand I could use but it works slower while drawing a full 50% less as my preferred tool. I carry both with me always but the more powerful tool is my first grab most times.

All the info you guys have presented helps me make this decision quite a bit easier but I'm sure I'll have more questions going forward.

[Weebles]

Originally Posted by JWA

. As I read and ruminate I believe I'll be going with an inverter (2000 Watt minimum, don't think I'll need more capacity), outfit it with a set of properly attached alligator clamps and i/0 cable crimped eyelet ends bolted to the inverter. I'll do that work myself as I have the skills and tools to do so.

If you really think you will bump-up against the 2000W limit (around 160 amps), you may want to go 2/0 cable. Attached is a Blue Sea wiring size chart - I strongly suggest staying well into the 3% loss column vs the 10% loss. Reason being is that this is additive to draw-down across the battery terminals. Will help you stay out of under-voltage shut-down conditions. Distance shown on chart is round trip, meaning measure length of both negative and positive cables.

Also, normally there is a fuse/circuit breaker on the positive run. I may have missed it in your description, but this type might work well (though I Blue Sea is really the gold standard for reliable circuit protection).

Peter

[JWA]

Hey Weebles thanks for that input---very helpful.

I like the idea of the inline breaker---I don't see a Blue Seas equal so your linked version is in my Amazon cart right now! Would I want to reduce the current rating to about 200 rather than the 250 in the link? Would I maybe see too many nuisance trips?

My input cable will be 6 feet max so the 1/0 should be sufficient as it does keep within the 3% loss spec. I should say that's my speculation at this point---thanks for posting the Blue Seas chart!

I'll also consider upping the inverters capacity to 2500 Watts if I can find a good quality brand, something well regarded by users like we have here. I don't need something sensitive to electronics etc.

I'm just about to pull the trigger on my so-far configured occasional use inverter---will update this in case it needs to be tweeked after first use.

[Weebles]

On another thread, Scalf77 recommended DonRowe.com for inverters. I purchased a 1000W Wagan PSW though I probably should have called Don Rowe to discuss as small, niche companies like these often have deep subject matter expertise.

The 2000W should really be plenty for you. The thing that caught my eye on the Wagan inverters is they are rated at 2000W continuous, meaning rated to carry a full 2000W for 24-hours continuously. The other inverter I considered that makes a similar claim is GoPower Inverters. I chose the Wagan as it has a hard-wire option which is rare in smaller inverters.

Note, that although the inverter is rated at 2000W (about 17 AMPS), each outlet is rated at 15A.

Blue Sea only makes the robust panel-mount circuit breakers, which is too bad. I don't really trust the cheap knock-off brands, but as you say, it's a compromise you really have to make. Because your inverter is peak-rated at 2x the continuous rating, you may want to stick with 250A. When I installed a Xantrex 2000W (4000W momentary peak), they recommended a 250A fuse (FYI - almost all recommend a fuse over a CB as fuses are more likely to blow quickly).

Good luck -

Peter

[posplayr]

So with all this discussion of batteries and charging, I started to look at what options there were for a second OEM alternator. Based on my 1997 manual there is a 95A and 130A typically put on the E-350's and a 215A Mitsubishi unit as well. I could not find a secondary alternator as a factory option for 1997 5.4L.

Anyway, I started prowling for aftermarket options and ran into several 300A+ options (e.g. DB Electrical, SurePower, etc) These tend to be between $300-$400+ with some as high as $600.

https://www.dbelectrical.com/product...ption-overview

https://www.tucsonalternator.com/Par...O&IDNum=113769



I looked through some ebay offerings from a google search and found this vendor aan_global on ebay. They have 100% positive reviews and they have a 300A heavy duty alternator (8 grove) for $194.74 shipped.

What really made them stand out initially was their product description:

This Is Truly A High Amp Premium Quality Well Built Alternator
It Has OE compliant functions : current limiting, thermal shutdown,
load dump protection, shorted field & lamp circuit protection

Current limiting and thermal shut down sound like some modern OEM features. I did not see that described in any other vendor descriptions.

Does anybody have any recommendations in this area? I have a couple of days before pulling the trigger (vendor gone on vacation). I currently have what I think is the 130A alternator from the factory and as far as I know, there is nothing wrong with it. But being able to double the output (for a new Renogy DC-DC 40A charger) with electronics control that I doubt exists on my current alternator sounds like a win-win at this price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202513986004

[JWA]

So work has been crazy but along the way I have acquired a Kreiger 2000 Watt inverter from one of my customers who is a big truck repair shop. They outfit a lot of trucks with new or replacement inverters, are a local source should any warranty issues arise. I paid a bit more from them than I could find online but they're loyal to me so buying from them was the right thing to do.

I've also secured 10' of 1/0 red and black cables--that was a bit more of a challenge than I expected. The vendor added through-bolt terminals to the inverter ends, will have to receive the battery terminal alligator clamps before I can continue preparing this for first use. The inverter did come with a rather clunky ANL or ANM fuse holder, one designed to be mounted although it will now find use in-line with the positive cable. I'll have to handle it carefully until or unless I can find a more robust in-line ANL/ANM fuse holder, something that will tolerate a bit of bumping and banging.

I do want to say thanks to everyone who contributed so far----it all went into my decision and choices. As mentioned I'd considered a Honda generator but I couldn't justify owning one and never using it. Also found a fabulous local vendor (> 2 miles ) and I would have absolute confidence in their outfit.

As this project winds on I'll post photos of what I've created---currently looking into HDPE food cutting boards to act as a base for the inverter, possibly an on-board cable storage arrangement as well. Those 1/0 cables are somewhat huge and I'm mostly sure their existing length will be shortened somewhat to maybe 8' or so.

I knew this was the place to come for great advice!

[86Scotty]

That inverter looks good, and certainly a good price point (I saw it on Amazon for $187.ish)

[BroncoHauler]

If you're going through Reno, and have any LiFePO4 batteries, BallteBorn is located there.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/contact/


Herb