Odd fridge and separator behavior?

[Gooseberry]

Originally Posted by arctictraveller

My plan is to run a heavy ground wire from the house batterys directly to the alternator. That project is near the top of the list. I'm not sure how or where Sportmobile attaches the ground, but perhaps it's outside the battery box so you don't have to drop it. A floor jack cross beam like one from Harbor Freight for around $40 would probably make it easier and safer to drop the battery. Add in an air ratchet and it sould be pretty quick.

No need to do that just check the ground straps from the motor to the frame and to the body.


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[alta825]

Originally Posted by Gooseberry

No need to do that just check the ground straps from the motor to the frame and to the body.


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Gooseberry, do you recall the general location of those straps before I go crawling around in the dirt?

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[arctictraveller]

Originally Posted by Gooseberry

No need to do that just check the ground straps from the motor to the frame and to the body.

Your correct that using the stock grounds will work reasonably well, but they can be less than optimal over the long term. Getting a low resistance, long lasting, corrosion free connection to the frame can be difficult to maintain (as seen by all the folks who have discovered bad ground connections). Each connection will have a small amount of resistance that can add up, and over time, corrosion in the connections builds up in the hostile environment under the van. In addition, copper conducts electricity better than steel, even with perfect connections. My goal is to minimize the time it takes to recharge the batteries using the alternator and / or solar, and since I already have the wire, it won't take more than an hour or so to run the wire and make solid, low resistance, long lasting connections. There is no doubt that keeping the stock connections clean is better than nothing, but I"m looking to get the absolute maximum out of my system.

[larrie]

One way to illiminate ground issues is to take all the grounds back to a single place on the frame. This gives you a common ground point, like in your house.

[Scalf77]

Originally Posted by alta825

Having some issues with my 02 battery system and hoping someone can help out

Been seeing the house battery voltage drop when the fridge kicks on down to 11.8 or so and when it stops running it goes right back to the 12.6-12.7v, inspected and made sure any connections and ground wires were tight. The house battery is a 2yr old Deka 4D.

Currently camping and I have my Overland Solar portable panel setup and the volt meter will show 12.9-13.1v while the fridge is not running and down to 11.8 when running. Also as soon as the fridge kicks on the separator or isolator (whatever SMB installed in the 02s) clicks.

Could that on the way out? Any field fixes or anything else to check out?? Seems to charge fine when driving and my starter batteries show 12.7 just sitting here not running and they are 3yrs old too

Thanks guys,


D

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On a "02" you should have a isolator, which is based off of diodes and thus should not give you a clicking noise. Do you know if the rig was ever updated to a separator (Surepower or Bluesea)? Do you only hear the click when the solar is working? batterry above (12.9 to 13.1). If that is the case it is very possible that you are hearing the solenoid on the separator open up as you fall below the low set point of 12.8 . You should also hear it click again when the fridge goes and the voltage goes above the set point.

If you can confirm that you have a isolator, I would be a little more worried about the clicking noise, as it could be a arcing connection. My house battery ground to the frame connection is on the wheel well. There were also other ground connections to that point, that included the fridge ground, although that could be because it was close, as other equipment was originally tied to the body, somewhere close to where it was installed.

-greg

[alta825]

OK solar is running and i hear a click up in the front drivers side engine compartment as soon as the voltage drops below 12.8, so I'm guessing the PO had swapped out the original isolator for a seperator. Would the separator be in a different location or anything else I should check out? Will definitely drop the house battery when I get home...


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[boywonder]

Originally Posted by alta825

.......so I'm guessing the PO had swapped out the original isolator for a seperator. Would the separator be in a different location or anything else I should check out?

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Don't guess...pop the hood and take a look.......an isolator is usually box-shaped with a couple of battery cable studs and some fins; a surepower isolator has a automotive looking relay as part of it's construction. Blue Sea separators come in a few different form factors.

The clicking could be some other relay.....not enough info to tell.....

If you find something under the hood, post a pic, someone here will identify it.....

[arctictraveller]

[QUOTE= Do you only hear the click when the solar is working? batterry above (12.9 to 13.1). If that is the case it is very possible that you are hearing the solenoid on the separator open up as you fall below the low set point of 12.8 [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure why the relay would be closed unless the engine was running, as seperators are normally wired to sense voltage from the start battery so they only close when the alternator raises the voltage above the set point. Perhaps it's wired differently though, to charge the start battery with solar? Perhaps the solar is connected between the house battery and the separator, causing it to close anytime the solar raises the voltage? Without more info, it's hard to say. If the separator sense wire were connected to the house battery, once the house battery was dead, the seperator would never close to recharge it from the alternator. Perhaps the house battery is undercharged explaining the voltage drop under load.

[Scalf77]

The two separators mentioned the surepower 1315 and bluesea ACR both commonly used by sportsmobile are Bidirectional, and will connect when either side is above the set point, for better or worse.
-greg

[daveb]

Originally Posted by arctictraveller

I'm not sure why the relay would be closed unless the engine was running, as seperators are normally wired to sense voltage from the start battery so they only close when the alternator raises the voltage above the set point. Perhaps it's wired differently though, to charge the start battery with solar? Perhaps the solar is connected between the house battery and the separator, causing it to close anytime the solar raises the voltage? Without more info, it's hard to say. If the separator sense wire were connected to the house battery, once the house battery was dead, the seperator would never close to recharge it from the alternator. Perhaps the house battery is undercharged explaining the voltage drop under load.

Hum...SMB wired mine a bit differently. The solar is wired to the house side along with the shore charger. The separator is 2-way meaning it monitors both sides of the separator and can pass current in either direction. Anytime the combined voltage drops below 12.8, the separator opens. Anytime the upper voltage of about 13.2 is reached on either battery system, the seperator closes and stays that way unless a load causes the combined battery system voltage to drop below the 12.8 threshold.
Depending on the solar systems output, it's possible that a higher load might pull the combined battery systems into the 12.8 range and trip open the separator. After that the house battery system is charged up first until it reaches about 13.2 and the separator closes charging both the house and starting systems. Most of the seprators have a built in delay so nothing is immediate.
My fridge pulls about 5.5 amps, so in low sun (poor solar output) the separator will stay open until the house battery reaches about 13.2v. The spread between 12.8 and the float level is key along with the fact the fridge cycles on and off & the charge output is low. I often see the fridge forcing the separator to open and close during the early morning hours as the house battery enters the range that's just enough to close it. When the fridge pulls the house side down below 12.8v it open and the cycle starts again. Until the solar amperage (or any charge current) is high enough to keep the combined voltage above 12.8v (when the separator is closed), the separator will cycle if the charge current can't keep up. The larger the load, the more likely it will pull the voltage down quicker to the trip open voltage point. I've found it's rare when I have the load so matched to the batteries SOC & solar output that the separator trips open and closed on a regular basis. Anyway if something has changed out of the ordinary, I'd be looking for problems.

An isolator is a one way device and with a typical install will not allow the solar (or shore charge) to charge the starting batteries or battery. It only allows the alternator to charge from the engine to the house system.

There are a host of issues that can cause problems... bad connections, a bad battery in a bank, a short, even a bad separator. A amp gauge (and knowing what the normal values are) can tell you a lot.

When I troubleshoot a problem I'll usually start with the easy things first unless I know the hard to get to area is the problem.