Powering my outlets with inverter: Do I need Magnum MS2000?

[geoffff]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

Not an artist so I'll try to paint a word picture

Hah! And I am?

Anyway, I wanted to put my plan out there for you all to see mainly to make sure I'm being smart about safety -- for instance, the GFI & breakers. I'll also have a 150 amp fuse wired in there before the inverter (1000 watts).

The inverter I ordered (Xantrex 806-1210 PROwatt 1000 SW Inverter) already has GFI on its 110 VAC outlet, so keeping the GFI I already have in the van might be overkill.

-- Geoff

[daveb]

Damn for about 50 bucks more you can get the transfer switch for that inverter.

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Access ... tch%29.pdf

[geoffff]

Interesting! Thanks, I'll consider...

[BajaSportsmobile]

Originally Posted by daveb

Damn for about 50 bucks more you can get the transfer switch for that inverter.

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Access ... tch%29.pdf

Great option that I considered but opted for the simple switch. Well, it is simple for me, but others have to ask me what to do so that I probably would have been better off with the Auto Transfer Switch.

[Scalf77]

I guess I would make sure I had a beaker between the shore power input and the charger. I don't really see the need for any of the breakers and GFI on the output of inverter. I am not sure how many outlets you have downstream. I am going under the assumption that your shore power hook up is 30 amp, and that you have one or two additional 15 amp breakers. I would keep the converter plugged into the GFI, and move any downstream outlets plugged into the inverter outlet, as I don't think it has the provision to hard wire the output.

Also a selector switch as others have would be a good option, even better if you have a another breaker for just the outlets. i believe this is pretty much what Baja painted also.


-greg

[ShuttlePilot]

I was doing the same thing as geoffff with a harbor freight modified sine 300w inverter plugged into the cig outlet. Those died quickly. Starting from that point I progressed to a Xantrex 600w pure sine fed direct from the house battery with large cables. That unit popped n smoked and was never used near the 600w. Got it replaced under warranty and that one smoked also. So I decided I needed to get serious about this inverter project and ended up with my current set up. I no longer carry a generator.

I wanted an inverter only unit because I had the usual intellipower converter already. I wanted pure sine wave so I didn't have to think about what was going to be plugged in. The off grid people I was talking to all said go with Magnum for a mounted inverter and Morningstar for a portable inverter, period. At the moment I only have one 4D 200ah battery so 1000w inverter is realistically all that can supported. Magnum inverters in that size seemed to come as an inverter/charger combo with an internal transfer switch. So that's how my system would have to be.

In my opinion inverters, solar, and batteries are personal decisions. Use what you feel is best for your adventures. (In space no one can hear you screaming) My system is by no means the best way or the least expensive but I don't see smoke in the cabin anymore. And solar brewed coffee is kinda cool.


The inverter is mounted in this location because the 12v power bus is under the couch and I wanted to keep this cable run short. The Space Shuttle has three 110v outlets from SMB. One seen in the photo, one under the sink(not shown) and one next to the breaker panel. It was easy to access the wiring behind the outlet above the inverter so I cut it free of the breaker panel and wired it to the inverter/transfer switch. This outlet is also wired to the outlet under the sink by SMB. The third outlet by the panel I'll explain below.


Magnum MMS1012. Wiring protective sheathing removed for picture.


Breaker panel with circuits added. The inverter transfer switch in rated a 15Amps and the SMB 110v wiring is rather small. So, I wired this outlet separately (not through the inverter, shore power only) with a dedicated 20A breaker and 12AWG wires. I call it the Hi Current AC outlet. If I'm on shore power and want to run an electric heater, I plug it into this outlet. It might be odd but I just left the intellipower charger under the couch but wired it to the van/starter battery bank. So I have two separate "chargers" for each battery bank. Not necessary but handy.


The control panel for the inverter/charger that makes it extremely programmable to tailor the charge algorithm to exactly what the battery manufacture recommends. This includes temperature compensation. I moved the charge wizard up here so he wouldn't get left out, even though his charger isn't as smart.


I drew this out just to put in my build binder for the 110 volt system. Don't laugh, other people got artistic in this thread.
Sorry If this got to lengthy. If I can be of assistance please ask. You've all helped me tremendously with what has become a Space Shuttle.

-Eric

[geoffff]

Thanks, ShuttlePilot. It took me a while to realize that you have a switching inverter there. I've marked up your diagram to help me understand the "flow direction" of electrical current.




-- Geoff

[geoffff]

Originally Posted by Scalf77

I guess I would make sure I had a beaker between the shore power input and the charger. I don't really see the need for any of the breakers and GFI on the output of inverter. [...] I would keep the converter plugged into the GFI, and move any downstream outlets plugged into the inverter outlet, as I don't think it has the provision to hard wire the output.

Thanks, Greg -- It sounds like you're recommending this, right?

before:


after:


-- Geoff

[ShuttlePilot]

Greetings Geoffff. My breaker box is like you describe. One bar connecting all four breakers. All power flow is away from the breaker box and never to it. Power can never return because a transfer switch (relay) is an "air gap" between the power coming in to inverter and power produced by the inverter. The transfer switch can physically never be contented to both at the same time so power leaving the inverter to the outlets can only come from one source.

Here's how mine works when switching. If I'm disconnected to shore power and inverting (making 110v) and I plug in the shore power, it switches the outlets nearly instantly to the shore power. Also the opposite can happen. If I'm on shore power and the shore power is interrupted the transfer switch will "click" to inverter power going to the outlets. The switching happens in like thousandths of a second. This is the same setup used in backup power supplies for computers and telecommunications.

An external transfer switch like Daveb was hinting at would probably work the same as my system.
I hope this clears things up some.

-Eric

[daveb]

Geoff after looking at that transfer switch (and Greg's post) I did realize that the switch is only rated at 15 amps. My inverters transfer switch is rated at 30 amps and the breaker panel is distributed properly to load but I figured you might not care if you actually need an outlet more than 15 amps. Most traditional sockets are rated 15 to 20 amps and figured that 5 amps lower would be moot in your case. I still standby that simply adding a well made inverter/charger with a built in transfer switch in place of your converter might be a better choice for both simplicity and better battery charging. But for small low amp items a small basic inverter might be OK. I've had good luck with my Xantrex as compared to what others have reported. Quality matters but I don't want to sway people into brands...every company has inverters that fail. What I do like about my setup is the controller and the fact it has voltage and amperage monitors. YMMV. Here is how mine is wired and I'm not saying this is the best design, only it has worked well for me.