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Old 03-31-2012, 02:28 PM   #21
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

The butyl in a tube looks like a winner! That should make a great fix for anyone having leak issues.

The tubing I stuffed inside the load bars was 3/4" x .083. I went up one size on the pivot bolt between the two bars to what now I believe is the standard size. You wouldn't want to oversize too much as it would create a weak spot in the tubing.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:21 AM   #22
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

i had my fantastic fan installed in van roof with that stuff. my auto body friend showed me a couple of the uses of the material in his shop. its pretty amazing stuff. he showed me where its actually being used as a gasket, adhesive and hinge all at the same time...neat.

it can get all over the place if youre not careful though lol
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:01 AM   #23
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

Hi;

Next I pulled the SMB back and drove the 4x4 into the gallows for it's new head.



Attach the base of the load bars to the channels with new hardware, drop the springs into the channels, tighten up the load with a come along, and hook the springs up to the chains with the "S" hooks.

Let the tension off the come along and voila the roof is holding itself up on another vehicle.

I'll detail the tent to sheet metal installation once the welting for the top arrives.

Gently pull down the penthouse top to see if the new head fits...



And there you have it. Old top onto (slightly) newer van.



Regards,

Gavin
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:13 PM   #24
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

Hi;

Well the parts are on order with some already arriving. Now it's time to figure out how to get the low oil consuming 1993 5.2 L fuel injected motor out of this old thing. It was a great van until some clown drove it without adequate transmission fluid.... Even my dog Pint is keeping his eyes closed to the upcoming mayhem.



I will install the motor with a new trans, torque converter, and transfer case in the 1984 4x4 van. Vehicles this old don't need emission inspections in Ontario so a carb and distributor would work, but I want the smooth running and fuel mileage of the injected motor.

I started by getting the factory shop manual and parts catalogs for the 1993. After dulling myself senseless for a few nights before bed I decided on a plan. I would leave all the wiring for the donor engine complete and figure out how to supply the computer with enough inputs to get it to run in the 4x4. Later I would upgrade the rest of the van with the newer wiring for the dash, AC, and such. In other words I would figure out the fewest possible wires to connect from the old van's existing wiring to the newer van's engine wiring. This progressive system will get me on the road sooner and keep the motivation high. Doing the dash and such now will take too long for any use this summer.

In the donor van there are 50 wires that come through the firewall and 60 that plug into the computer so this seemed insurmountable to start, but eventually the nightly fog lifted.

Here's my logic sequence:

1- the ignition key has to start the thing so the firewall must contain the wires that transmit the signal(s) to the computer
2- I can find the wires in the old 4x4 van that come from the ignition key and splice them into the bulkhead connector for the newer motor thereby preserving all the wiring and connectors for future swapping of the entire wiring harness, AC, dash, etc.
3- I need to preserve all the engine sensors or it won't run properly
4- I already own the fuel pump in the 1993 tank so the tank will have to be swapped along with the high pressure fuel lines
5- the rear wheel anti lock sensor doesn't exist in the 4x4 van so I can eliminate the entire system. The anti lock feature is not operated by the engine computer and therefore I won't have to stare at a check engine light because the anti lock is missing
6- the bodies are so similar that wiring length and layout will be virtually identical
7- all I need to add on the dash is an overdrive switch and a check engine light to get the thing moving
8- MOST importantly now is the time to sort this out as I can always put the pieces back in the 1993 van and figure out what I am doing wrong before the swap into the 4x4. Later I will have no ability to do any analysis plus I know the motor runs.

So here I go. First the wiring diagrams are analyzed.



Suffice to say that after reading the list of 50 terminals about 200 times I realize that there are only 4 wires that come through the firewall that have any possible connection to the computer or starter relay. Some checking with the shop manual confirms that only 2 of these wires actually send a signal that the computer gets. One wire runs all over the relays and sensors and then to the computer and the other goes directly to the starter relay. Every other wire has nothing to do with starting or running the motor. These two wires must be the ones. So terminals 31 "engine starter relay" and 47 "ignition run and start" need 12 volts from the ignition switch to crank and fire the motor.

Now I disconnect the engine bay side of the firewall connector.



Then I check the 60 pins on the computer harness.





Obviously the computer is getting power and signals from other places than just the ignition key. So a review of all the pins leads to few choices as the shop manual only shows 6 inputs that are not from sensors or relays. And three of the six are grounds. Of the three remaining one shows power when the battery is hooked up, another is a feedback from a relay to tell the computer all is well, and the last one is the same wire from terminal 47 of the firewall connector. 12 volts supplied to this terminal results in relays clicking and the fuel pump running. Adding voltage to terminal 31 adds the sweet sound of the starter turning over followed by the engine firing!

So that's all that will be needed to get the motor to run in the older van. I will trace the starter relay and ignition circuits and hook them up to the appropriate wires in the newer wiring harness.

In the mean time I am unwinding 500 miles of electrical tape to make sure I take only what wiring I need.



Spaghetti anyone?

Regards,

Gavin
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:26 PM   #25
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

Hi;

Today was the day to head out and pick up the wheels, centre caps, transmission, and transfer case. I had to take the old transfer case (tc) with me so it could be shipped back in its crate and thereby avoid a core charge. That meant the tc had to drop out on Friday night. Luckily Pntyrmvd suggested helping me out with it so it went quickly with no grief.

First I put a wheel chock behind the rear wheel to prevent the van from rolling back once the tc was out. Safety is number one around here.



Then the jack went up underneath to support it.



The front and rear u-joints are unbolted and the driveshafts are hung temporarily under the van. Then the speedo cable, 4wd indicator sensor, and shift linkage are unbolted. The vent tube is removed. Lastly the six bolts that hold the tc to the transmission are unbolted. A wiggle, a twist, and a yank and it's free of the tranny. 90 minutes to get it out thanks to my gal and the ability to crawl under the 4x4 without jacking it up. Pint obviously approves.



Certainly very Dodgy around here, eh Pint?



This morning I pulled off the yokes from the tc for the driveshafts. Giving them back to the tc supplier would have been a huge mistake. The front yoke is not a Dodge piece or pattern. GMC Suburban I think.

Today I headed out to pick up the parts in Niagara Falls, NY. I had them shipped to a warehouse there to avoid the insane cross border shipping rates and brokerage fees that a shipment to the Ranch would have entailed. Besides Pntyrmvd is at her sister's place and nothing says bachelor-hood like a cross border road trip.

I got to the warehouse, swapped the old tc for the new one, loaded up, paid the sales tax at the border and headed home.

At the Ranch I got a better look at my purchases.

Transmission by PATC in Louisiana. Full of expensive clutches, bands, and fairy dust. Good for 500 hp and includes overdrive. Will mate up with 93 fuel injected engine without a problem. In fact the same as a 93 4x4 Dodge truck tranny except more fairy dust and a new deeper oil pan.



Of course putting a 93 trans and motor in a 1984 van is going to create a few opportunities for creativity. First of all total length of the overdrive tranny is 3 1/2" longer than the old tranny. That means the tranny mount will have to be moved back, the rear driveshaft shortened, the front driveshaft lenghtened, and both axles angles verified and likely altered.



Secondly this tc was never meant to be installed behind this tranny. The shaft diameter, spline count, bolt pattern, and clocking (offset) are fine. The problem is the depth. Somewhere in the recesses of my brain I knew this was going to be an issue. Rough math with a tape measure shows a 1/4" gap that must be filled to stop the units from damaging each other.




Luckily the folks that make Atlas tc's have faced this same issue with Mopar trannies and sell spacers. They don't sell one at 1/4" but I'll order a 1/2" one and have it machined down to size.

The torque converter is new too. It includes a lockup function, but is made for serious abuse. It is made from billet steel with pixie dust interior parts and a 1800 rpm stall speed. Check out the machining on this lump.



Now on to some visible, sexy parts. The wheels! Initially I was going to buy 17"x8" factory Dodge truck rims. I priced them out and fell over. Even used they were too much money for the condition they were in. Also very hard to locate. I called Midwest Wheels and Tires in Michigan and Mike had the answer. He shipped me 5 wheels and 4 centres. The wheels are exact duplicates of the factory wheels and came in white boxes with marked boxes inside. They are new, beautifully packaged, and have stampings on the back side.



Now I'm no fan of Chinese made stuff. Chrysler has used aluminum wheels for years now and they are tested and very strong. I want a wheel that won't let me down. I have seen wrecking yard pieces that were bent, but only broken in the most extreme collisions. Imagine my surprise when I turn around this well known wheel manufacturer's product and find the stamps and castings that indicate SAE J2530 testing:







I then ran the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) number through Google and found out that these wheels were tested to a standard. The other numbers indicate the maker, the offset, WEIGHT rating of 3000+ lbs, and their pixie dust content.

So for a very reasonable price I have strong, good looking wheels that pay homage to a van Dodge never built. I'll cut the centres out of the front caps to allow access to the locking hubs. Later I can add rear disc brakes with no worries about wheel interference.



My only question is how can they copy the exact look of the factory wheel and not be stopped by Chrysler. If we used this forum to blatantly copy a design Jage would rightly scold us and possibly throw us out. Hmmm... maybe they are the same company that Chrysler used for their wheels. Oh, the mystery of it all!

Regards,

Gavin
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:23 PM   #26
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

need more info on that wheel chock....its exactly what ive been looking for....

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Old 06-23-2012, 10:38 PM   #27
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

Gavin,

Man you did good today, that's a lot of nice parts.

I am glad you are playing it completely safe by blocking the wheels before you get under it.
Do those wheel chocks come in other colors? Do you have a part number for them? Can you get them at Canadian Tire, Tim Horton's (OK I know they are in the US now) or Petro Canada?

So is that White and Teal Conversion van you drove down to NY yet another one in your Dodge van collection? So is that four vans? The Blue SMB, the Tan 4x4, The White conversion van with the body damage that you are taking the engine out of. Are there any more? How long have you been into collecting Dodge vans?

..Jamie
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:50 AM   #28
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

Hi;

The wheel chock is available only at ACE hardware stores in the redneck section. Sometimes called the wheel chalk in Tennessee. They are usually next to the sky hooks and road hammers. Hey the damn thing wasn't going anywhere with the half flat tire, but I figured the joke would sell. If you look in later photos it was replaced with a high traction rock.

Vans, oh yes I've got vans; all Dodge. My parents bought a 1992 conversion van and put 100K mis on it. I put another 100K on it when they were done with it. I'm tall and not petite so I really fell for the space and ability to have a mobile office in them. Once the door hinges quit I bought another 1991 in North Carolina. Then a sweet 1993 came along in Ohio. I'd still be driving it except the tranny is shot due to some idiot that ignored the warning signs of low transmission fluid. That 93 will be donating the engine to the 4x4. The white and teal was my first "new" style van; a 1996. I love the "aero" front end. I bought it on eBay in Tennessee with 36K mis on it last year. It now has 76K mis on it. We take it camping and I use it for my office. We drove it to Georgia to flat tow the blue SMB home. Check out my post on that little excursion: http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/vie...hp?f=10&t=7928

The blue SMB base for this project is a 1982. The 4x4 is a 1984.

That puts the Dodge van total at 6. And they are all here at the Ranch. Some more appropriately stored than the poor 1993 lying in the weeds waiting to give her beating heart to the 4x4 project. I will start scrapping stuff as soon as I decide what I will need in the future. That step up to the 1996 really dragged me into modern times. The old ones have to go, but the sheet metal is all the same. Deny, deny, deny.

Why all the Dodge products you ask? My first car was a Cordoba and I still have a few of them (6!). So I know all the parts and such. I know the vans inside out from all the miles and the few issues I've had with them. Lastly I drove a new 1995 Dodge 1/2 ton pickup into a very deep, empty irrigation ditch at 25 mph and lived to talk about it.

So Dodge it is.

Regards,

Gavin
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:53 PM   #29
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

Gavin,

Wow now thats dedication to the brand...
Good for you, good for Dodge...

I was that way with GM vans from 1976 when I ordered my first van until last year when I sold my last one. The first one I had for almost 30 years, (a buddy of still has it) and I have had quite a few others as well. I still have a fondness for any old vans really since I grew up in the crazy vanning days of the 1970s and 80s. I still have friends in the Northeast and Canada who are into vans and van shows. I think vans of all types are making a come back. Even the cover of Hot Rod magazine a few months back had a thing that said "vans are back, don't blame us" And there are over 5,000 members on this forum shows there is quite a bit of interest in them as well.

I really appreciate all of the work you are doing to your van, and for posting it here, its turning out great.

Cheers...
...Jamie
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Old 07-08-2014, 03:13 PM   #30
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Re: 1984 Dodge B350 4x4 project

Hi,

Tease.

After 25 months since my last posting about this project I have some news on many fronts...

Sadly the photos are stuck in my damn camera.

Stay tuned.

Regards,

Gavin
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