2009 Ford E250 RB High Top Build

[dhally]

Originally Posted by Wildhare

I had the same rear air on my cargo van when I got it.If you want to gain some space with out losing the A/C you can.About 1/3 of that can be removed if you remove the heater core and some of the duct work.I figured we did'nt need the rear heat as we were putting in a furnace.Good luck on your build.

Thanks for that suggestion, I will take a look. Both my wife and I agree there will be times when the rear AC would come in handy. Rear heat not so much. We have run a furnace while driving and it only blew out when the cross winds got above 40 mph.

[carringb]

Originally Posted by Silver350

So all vans since 1992 are like that?

Yes. The body from the A-pillar back hasn't changed since '92.

Now, if you look at a Chevy or Dodge van, you will see a completely different construction. They are just single wall, with a few vertical ribs. I think this is why those vans were more popular as conversion vans. Much easier to install windows. On the Ford, if you go larger than the factory window size, you have twice as much cutting.


On the rear AC issue....

Having the rear HVAC unit I've never felt like I have wasted space back there. But there's been times I've kept the van running for hours, to cool or heat the back. Especially heat. I don't have a furnace, and since the van only uses 0.7 GPH of fuel at idle, I'd gave to run it for a very long time before the fuel saving would pay for a furnace. Also, if you sell the van, not having rear AC could be a deal breaker for some buyers. I know I would never consider a van without it. Even while driving, rear heat is needed to keep passengers warm when the temps drop much below freezing. And while you're driving, rear factory heat is free. If you run a furnace, you'd increasing your fuel use.

BTW - the rear AC is also good for transporting food. When I drove to the Grand Canyon for a river trip, by the time we got to the put-in, the water jugs below the rear AC vents were partially frozen! This was in August.

[dhally]

In preparation for the real build, I decided to do some sound deadening first. Our old vans always were quite noisey and after reading in this forum and some car audio forums, it sounds like sound deadening can help a lot. All the materials were purchased from Second Skin Audio, who gave great service and advice.

The first layer in the system is Constrained Layer Damping (CLD) which reduces noise generated by vibrations in flat areas of sheet metal. The CLD comes in two ticknesses - the heavier CLD is on the left and the thinner one on the right. This material is commonly called Dynamat but is made by several manufacturers.


The second layer is a noise barrier which is done with a Mass-Loaded Vinyl (MLV) de-coupled from the structure by closed cell foam. The first type comes in two components. Here is the foam


And the MLV


The second type of MLV comes with a thick foam bonded to MLV. It is heavy duty!

[dhally]

The noise closeest to the front seats is the floor. I first put down the thick CLD. It only needs to cover about 25% of the area to be treated. Formed or reinforced areas shouldn't need any, since they are very rigid and won't vibrate as much. The CLD can be seen on the driver's side.


Next comes the foam. I didn't run it clear up to the edges everywhere to avoid too much thickness where the engine cover and trim panels have to fit over it. I also left gaps at outside curves to allow space to bend the MLV better.


Here's the finished MLV surface, ready for the carpet. I put it under the seat mounting points to try to cushion any vibrations transferred up throught the anchors.


Here is the door well - it seems like a noise source.


I put CLD all around the door wells, but only put MLV in the bottom because I was concerned the trim wouldn't fit back in.


The carpet went back in fine. The trim pieces all went back in, but some of the plastic clips broke off so I just added sheet metal screws.


You can also see the edge of the cargo floor in the above picture. I used the factory rear carpet but turned it upside down with the heavy rubber side up. This should help isolate the plywood flooring from the steel floor. Hopefully the rubber won't disintegrate over time...

[dhally]

The second worst noise source in the front will be the doors. I use the thick CLD on the inner and outer door sheet metal on the front doors and the thinner CLD on the side and rear doors. The MLV is a noise barrier but it only works if forms an uninteruppted surface. In the front doors this was impossible, since the door trim panel has hooks that go through the metal skin. Hopefully this isn't wasted work:


I left the MLV short mainly because I was running short of material.

Here's the CLD on the side door (all the doors were similar)


The speakers got special attention. I made foam gaskets between the speakers and metal skin, and also between the speakers and the door trim panels, to stop any rattles. I made some mid-bass reflectors out of scraps of MLV to install behind the speakers. Theoretically the sound waves that go backwards will reflect back through the speaker and can cancel out the forward sound waves. The faceted reflectors are supposed to break up the sound waves and send them in different directions, which reduces the cancellation effect.


I can say for sure that after this work, the speakers stopped rattling during heavy bass, and they don't sound any worse.

On the side doors I glued MLV and foam to the inside of the factory trim panels. They will need some more fasteners to hold the foam tight to the metal inner skin.

[dhally]

This van had a lot of engine noise coming inside the van. During the sound deadening installation, I discovered that the floor on the drivers side was bent downwards, which created a gap in the engine cover gasket seal. I bent the floor back up, and the engine noise went back to "normal". But I had already made plans for massive noise blocking. Here is the factory insulation.


Under the insulation I discovered that Ford has already installed a lot of CLD. It was poorly installed, so I used a knife and roller to get it flattened out and well adhered to the engine cover.


Next I cut several pieces of the thick MLV (using templates) to fit the comlex internal curves.


Here is the MLV installed. Hopefully it, and the glue, will hold up to the engine heat.


The factory insulation went back in after some trimming and persuading.


Re-installing the engine cover was difficult because of the added thickness of the foam and MLV on the floor. I'm thinking about trimming back the bottom of the dash a little to make it easier.

[dhally]

The first step in the back was to use galvanized sheet metal to seal up the holes left when I had the rear AC removed. This dropped the nosie level about 50% alone.


Next I applied the thin CLD to 25% of every flat surface I could reach. Only the low areas of the floor got the CLD.


... Leaving out CLD in areas for furture appliances and windows.


The front and rear roof areas that will remain after high top installation got the same treatment.

[dhally]

I drove the van about 200 miles after the sound deadening project. Subjectively it seemed better, and the stereo definitely sounded better. There still seems to be some wind noise near the side doors, and quite a bit of road noise in the cargo area. The real test will be after the interior is finished.

[dhally]

I took a little road trip on my new bike to check on the progress of the build. (Shameless display of my new used Suzuki WeeStrom)



Sean is my personal fabricator, and seems to be doing a very good job.


They have cut the hole for the propane access. I will be interested to see how they seal up the rocker panel - the plan is to use painted marine plywood with RTV sealant.


The plywood floor


Front headliner and side shelf. All the walls and ceiling will be vinyl to avoid dust impregnation.


Rear shelf and headliner


Sean has designed Van Specialties 1/4" plywood window frames. They get wrapped in upholstery fabric. Very custom looking.



We are hoping to pick up the van this weekend! It has been a rather long process.

[jage]

Looks great- are you sharing the 411 on your "personal fabricator" or keeping him all to yourself?