7.3 Instrument Cluster Tachometer

[BroncoHauler]

Originally Posted by E350

JWA: I am sure you know that Tugly has an extensive discussion of using Torque Pro in the 7.3L forum on ford-trucks.com. As an alternative you could just buy a Nexus 7, an OBD II connector, and the $5 Torque Pro app and run the tach off the Nexus 7:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13007 ... -7-3l.html

...

Way off topic now, but have you used Torque Pro? It looks very promising, and not that you need a Nexus 7, but I even have a Nexus 7 gen 2, and I passed my gen 1 to my son. I currently have a Scan Gauge connected to my OBD port, and while Torque Pro performs the same functions and more, I'd be very hesitant to get rid of my ScanGauge as I prefer a dedicated monitor that I can look at any time, rather than swiping between apps on my tablet while driving. I do like what I see of Torque Pro for troubleshooting though.

Any recommendations on a Bluetooth OBD dongle?


Herb

[E350]

BroncoHauler: I am a talker not a doer regarding my van for a while now. Recently, I have been focusing on refining my Bronco. So, no, I have not used Torque Pro. But as you can see from Tugly's initial thread, there are many knockoff OBD connectors which don't work. Tugly researched the entire issue and recommends only one. See:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/12894 ... bacon.html

See post #21:

"'Originally Posted by JT250

Is there a "best" quality BT dongle to get?'

I did a lot of homework before I bought mine, and the OBDIILink MX http://www.scantool.net/obdlink-mx.html kept coming up as the heavy-hitter. It works on my 2009 Prius, which means it works just fine on CAN. Almost every app or software I looked at listed this device in the compatibility chart. The ones that don't use it want you to use their OBDII interface. (AutoEnginuity)

I'll warn yuh... it's a hundred bucks - but it's freaking small. It shuts off a while after shutting down the truck, then it stays off until you turn the key again. It will not drain the battery, so you can leave it in.

Oh... and it's really really fast."

[E350]

JWA: I just read through the Q Van Build thread. And I see that you pm'd Adventr already. And I see that he likely sold his van. And, I suppose, never provided you with the wiring schematics that you requested. So, I apologize for my post. It looks like this topic is a cat chasing its tail without providing the specific information needed.

So, the following post and the threads linked in it appear to be the most helpful:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/89388 ... 5-a-2.html

But is a '95 analog and are our clusters digital? Is that the issue?

As carringb said, don't our 99-03 7.3L's have a CTO clean tach out wire which can be connected to a F350 cluster of the same vintage?

My friend, it may be you who has to do the work and post for us the wiring diagram that you seek.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by E350

My friend, it may be you who has to do the work and post for us the wiring diagram that you seek.

Quite possibly that's true! Not really chasing our tails here with this sort of swap but as you say specific details or a step-by-step tutorial doesn't exist for this---yet. Some of the challenges as I see them are Ford changes their pin out locations of the some circuits from model year to model year---make your own mind as to why they do this. This complicates things mostly from the point what I'd do on a '97 chassis might not work on a '00 and so on..........

Given that clusters are so integral to the drive train's proper function its vital they're not only connected properly but that whatever on-board electronic control or microprocessor works with the ECM and other chassis components too. If swapping a tach equipped cluster in place of those without was just a matter of connecting the gauges and adding the CTO signal this would be fairly easy.

Another hurdle I believe to exist is how best to create an adapter wiring harness (for lack of a better term) that would interface chassis wiring to the transplanted cluster. I've solved this part of it while daydreaming however proper connections and compatibility remains to be solved.

Someone somewhere knows how to do this much easier than it will turn out being with trial and error. Understanding how clusters work with the ECM, which microprocessors can be swapped etc would go a great distance making this easier but that info seems to be closely guarded, as though revealing it undermines a profit potential for those in the know. Or so far I've just not been able to find that person who'll work for pay to do this for me!

In the end trying to retrofit an OEM tach cluster into a van not originally equipped with one might be our Moby Dick----and the quest continues, titling at windmills I assume............ Que paso, Sanco??

[JCTex]

I have an additional twist to this.

I'm about to swap my 1999.5 7.3 dash and cluster wo a tach with a 2014 E350 XLT van dash and cluster. Before I do the do, I've got to know how the wiring is going to go. I have access to three experts on 7.3 but haven't turned the problem over to them, yet.

I'm going back thru this thread and write down the parts that seem to appt to me

Any thoughts and suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.

[JWA]

JC your situation and mine are somewhat similar however the dash and cluster from the '14 will be significantly different than the '99. I'm not sure the '14 will physically fit although because the bodies haven't significantly changed there might be a lot of compatibility there.

Cluster-wise the '14 has the digital odometer whereas your '99 the rotating wheel style so along with whatever device in the cluster "talks" to the ECM they're not likely to be compatible I'd almost guarantee.

Another aspect I failed to mention is the chassis wiring cluster harness connectors are also significantly different making this not so much a DIY project unless you're adept in changing these, in the physical sense anyway.

FWIW when I attempt this I'll be using an F-Series cluster from the same approximate year as my van which only slightly makes this remotely possible. For my '03 E250 I have in stock several Ford OEM clusters, all from '98 to '00 F-Series, Expeditions, Explorers et al.

Not too helpful I know but it is what it is!

[shenrie]

just called my wife. shes bringing in the diagrams i used to do this conversion to my work. thier a mess, but i can scan them and post them up. i tried numerous times to get my buddy to print new diagrams off for me so i could post them up and have them be legable for you guys to use, but he just kept putting me off, and hes now closed his doors. so my hands are tied until i find another source for diagrams.

its a lot harder to aquire the info for this project than it is to pull it off. depinning and relocating within the plugs is easy. just gotta know where to put them, lol.

[E350]

Nothing but hearsay (readsay) here and a poor memory to boot. But in one of the threads I linked above, a poster mentioned that the odometer on the F350 cluster he was using was a clip out and clip in component, so he just unclipped the F350 digital odometer and clipped in the analog, IIRC.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by shenrie

its a lot harder to aquire the info for this project than it is to pull it off. depinning and relocating within the plugs is easy. just gotta know where to put them, lol.

Boy, Howdy ain't that the gospel?

ANYTHING you've got would be very helpful to this little venture we're hoping and wishing to muddle through. I'll PM you with an email address, perhaps ask for the scanned bits sent so I can file and digest/dissect them too?

Originally Posted by E350

Nothing but hearsay (readsay) here and a poor memory to boot. But in one of the threads I linked above, a poster mentioned that the odometer on the F350 cluster he was using was a clip out and clip in component, so he just unclipped the F350 digital odometer and clipped in the analog, IIRC.

Fascinating! I did an autopsy on a E-Series a while ago on FTE, linking it here for those interested: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...l#post11747876

I've long considered buying an '06 cluster and tearing it apart---IF the digital display odo and its previous version be interchangeable without affecting the power train that makes this a lot more doable.

We're making progress boys---slow but sure!

[E350]

To All: Please also see the update which Y2KW57 posted below:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11263 ... ble-2.html

"Tim... Several times in you post above you have said "99-03" instrument cluster (for F Series Super Duty), but keep in mind that the 99-01 cluster is quite different than a 02-03 cluster, both visually and electrically. And for purposes of retrofitting into a different chassis altogether, it is the electrical/signal part that presents a few hurdles.

Ford calls the 02-03 cluster a "Hybrid Electronic Cluster" or "HEC". It contains a microprocessor as well as hardwired circuitry that communicates over the standard corporate protocol (SCP), and UART based protocol (UBP) communication networks. Communication using the SCP network transmits and receives data between the instrument cluster and the PCM. Communication using the UBP network utilizes data transmitted and received by the instrument cluster and the body security module, driver seat module and the electronic air temperature control (EATC).

Ford also states that the HEC is not repairable at the dealership level, other than a lens replacement and backlight bulb and warning iight bulb renewal. No other repairs to the HEC are authorized at dealership level, hence there are no PC board level schematics in the service information. The repair procedure is to remove and replace the cluster.

The HEC receives data sent by the PCM over the SCP network, and commands the tachometer according to the data.

If it were my diesel E-Series Van, I'd get the Auxiliary Powertrain Control Module, also known as the Auxiliary Idle Control, along with the mounting bracket designed for the vans, and simply plug that into the port under the dash that is already there for it. (not the OBDII port, but a separate port just for the APCM).

Not only will this box provide an accurate digital tach, it will also enable one to have automatic charge protection while stationary, elevating the engine idle dynamically according to the current charging/discharging state of the electrical system. Not only that, but the APCM will permit any number of preprogrammable elevated idle settings. These units were popular in ambulances, back in the days when every ambulance on the road was a 7.3L equipped E-Series extended van or cutaway.

Below are pics of the APCM from an F-Series, but the E-Series box looks the same, except it doesn't have the PTO control button, and has a different mounting bracket.
[Pictures in original post.]"



(I have rep'd him so many times that I cannot rep him again for a while...) So if you are an FTE member, please send him reps. He deserves it.