Help needed

[1der]

Originally Posted by BroncoHauler

But isn't this strictly a personal perspective, with your opinion being based on other people's opinion's, and also based on your personal expectations are for a top?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but without taking a person's expectations and planned usage into account, universal declarations like this carry little value. There are plenty of other examples on this forum when someone proclaims a particular brand of cooktop, furnace, or water heater better than another, but rarely, if ever, is one brand better in all perspectives than another.


Herb

Hi Herb, No offense taken and I appreciate you keeping me objective!

I agree. No one brand has it all nailed down in all perspectives, and usage, actual usage, plays a huge role in what is deemed "best" (best compromise) for each personal situation. I feel, and often ask an Thread OP, what their anticipated usage and experience is, to better understand what my response might be.

Yes, you are right to some degree about my opinion being based on "others' opinions" as I have not experienced a CCV topn or GTRV top in personal use. The SMB top I have experienced personally.

The "others opinions" relative to CCV top are based on my extensive discussions with people with direct personal usage of a CCV top. I would refer anyone who wants first hand accounts of direct experience of those who have owned both to search for the postings from those who have had different tops themselves so teh comparisons are from the same source. I would consider their input a valid basis for their experience and usage. My discussions were to determine what aspects of their personal usage of a CCV top could map onto my expectations of use (based on our 20+ years of van camping).

I have inspected the CCV top and have physically seen the differences in roof opening, bed size, lifting mechanisms, and stability. I found the CCV top to be superior in those areas which are important to me. Those are based on my observations, not usage, and also not other's opinions. Someone else may have a different hierarchy of importance.

On "one better than another": Yes, many times there is not one better than another . So many aspects (nearly every?) of these rigs is some form of compromise. Yes, planned usage for the particular individual is an essential piece in evaluating what is best/better/acceptable. I think this is where SMB really did excel, in offering so many different floor plans and configurations, and actually being able to deliver a rig that worked and for the most part met customers expectations/acceptance of the compromise for their personal situation.

Modification of my post should therefore read:
I anticipate the CCV top is a better for our usage.

(I hope to be able to change that in the very near future to: It is the best top for us based on our first hand extensive use.)

Ray

[1der]

[/quote] My goal is to make sure guys don't go through what I've seen (like KTM rider) again.[/quote]

That can be accomplished by CCV improving / changing. It does not mean putting them out of business.

And if it goes according to plan they will cut a hole in my roof of which I will take pictures.

[UJOINT]

My goal is to make sure guys don't go through what I've seen (like KTM rider) again.[/quote]

That can be accomplished by CCV improving / changing. It does not mean putting them out of business.

And if it goes according to plan they will cut a hole in my roof of which I will take pictures.[/quote]

Agree. Not trying to put anyone out of business.

[86Scotty]

This is great dialogue and I appreciate everyone here for keeping it civil. Opinions can get pretty nasty when lots of money and time is spent thinking about and having something done that winds up less than you expected. I really feel for the guy (can't remember his name, Twogone knows him well, lives on the Ms. gulf coast) that those pics Ujoint posted were from. I know Derek and have seen some amazing work and some less than stellar work, and I still have a hard time believing that he himself did that van. It was bad and I can't explain it. I have also seen him grow and get better, firsthand, and that being said I still cannot say that he is as meticulous as Chris (Ujoint) or Ramsey (Agile). That's not a complaint. Everyone has different expectations/talents/communication skills/budgets...etc.etc. I know some recent customers have been really impressed with Derek's work, (Rick/REF) for instance.
When I had my CCV top done I had some mixed feelings about it. It was a bit rushed and didn't come complete (cushions weren't finished) and had to be shipped to me. Also, two things I requested weren't done as I asked, but I attribute that to an email that got lost, and having never gotten a response on that email I have no reason to doubt it's loss. I also had a motor screw up about a year after my top was done. Derek fixed it and then some, within the time frame I could be there, and he plainly stated that if I couldn't get the van out to him he would have someone local to me fix it. I wanted him to do it since he is most familiar with his own stuff. Before I took the trip out to have it fixed I plainly asked if he could pay for my travel expense. He said no. I believed him and still wanted to have him fix it when I could get it there. He was much smaller and newer at that point, and it wasn't that big of a deal since I was headed out there to visit family anyway. This is not a complaint, though of course I would've loved it if he said 'send me a bill for your travels!' Do I have any regrets about having that van done? Nope. We loved it. Everyone who saw it seemed to love it. The family I sold it to loves it still. I sold it because I am a guy who has had 100 cars at least and counting. I just don't keep stuff forever. Anyone want to buy my SMB? I'm not kidding. Ready to build the next one.
I was hesitant to contribute to this thread because I don't feel my input here is really needed, but I wanted to offer my experience to those who don't already know it (1der/Ray and I have talked on the phone and in person a few times, and I have advised many others of my experience with CCV, good and bad). Here's the biggest reason I am jumping in. I am no longer a CCV owner, and am now an SMB owner. My SMB is older, but no better. It has all of the hidden problems my CCV had. It is not engineered or built out perfectly. Cheap cabinets for one, a top that doesn't line up and needs shifting around every time I lift/lower it. I could go on, but won't. I still love my unique van.
Sorry for the long post.

[KTMRIDER]

1der my issues with the work on my van stem mostly from the interior work and electrical as I have stated previously in other posts. It also stems from what I percieved as a lackluster effort on the build of my van by Derek despite being one of his first customers (I think) and having talked with him for months before my build. It was disturbing to me when I arrived to pick up my van by plane that it still wasn't even done and things like the Espar heater and AC unit were not hooked up or tested. He made a statement that went along the lines of if he were to test every van he wouldn't have time to get any work done. What?

I do not have a CCV top and have never stated I did. I haven't heard anything bad about them. I did ask 86Scotty about the engineering of the tops when he put one on his old van because I know he has a family like myself and was concerned about safety. I brought this up based on my experience with a failed overhead bed Derek had made for my build. That bed sat right above the bench seat where a car seat was and thankfully it failed when my child was not with me.

It sounds like you have done your research on his tops and have concluded it is the best choice for you and that is great. I have never met 86scotty or REF in person but would trust their opinions. I was bummed I missed the new year campout were I could have checked out REFs top and watched him on the drop off .

I do not wish anything bad against CCV. I found he and his wife to be very nice people but that has nothing to do with the poor work I feel was done on my van. As I said I hope others don't have a similar experience. I have also posted the info of the guy that did a fantastic job on redoing the interior for me. I have come to learn no build is perfect and issues are to be expected with any van. My poor experience with CCV goes beyond that in my opinion.
Eric

[shenrie]

Originally Posted by 86Scotty

This is great dialogue and I appreciate everyone here for keeping it civil. Opinions can get pretty nasty when lots of money and time is spent thinking about and having something done that winds up less than you expected.

well said eric

i also enjoy the fact this place is so civil. its nice to see people think before they type...

im only bumping this thread to mention that derek did not install my top. all my dealings with him were strictly me purchasing a poptop setup and having it sent to idaho. i can not attest to his fabwork other than the poptop and the mechanisms that make it function. however, our top has been installed a year now and has worked flawlessly thus far. we couldnt be happier.

[BajaSportsmobile]

I am hesitant to wade in on this conversation, but I also feel some discomfort in not standing up and saying - Hey, we all fall short of perfection and there is a growth process that small businesses go through, it is going to leave some customers less than happy.

All of us in the Van Space have dissatisfied customers - ALL OF US!

I get calls an emails about the "other guy", how they are not satisfied with "his" service or product - and I am sure someone has done the same with our's. We have fixed, modified and replaced other's products and they will perhaps see our's.

I know we fall short on the communication issue as do other's. When you are a one or two man shop like most of us are - there is only so much time in the day.

Derek has some great products (he is busy for a reason) as do all of us, and we all have fallen short. I'm not willing to throw any of those in our business under the bus.

[eddyturn]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

I'm not willing to throw any of those in our business under the bus.

Good post.

[jydog]

I bought 4x4 components from Derek at CCV. Reasonable priced. I doubt I could build them myself much cheaper. I will concur that Derek is hard to get a hold of. But you will get him if you are persistent and get him when he is on his way to work. I did have a few problems with my parts.

Missing a few grade 8 bolts - easily sourced and I don't know if he was supposed to include them in the bracket kit or not but he said he would supply them or re reimburse me. He shipped them out to me.

Arm brackets had some plasma or water jet cuts that were supposed to be a logo that did not come out as intended so he shipped me a new set with the corrections.

Track bar bracket was off about 1-1/2 inches. I don't know if there are two different offsets or not but he shipped me a new one that fit.

This was a DIY van 4x4 so I expected to have some problems. Overall there is not another kit like this on the market at this price and I believe I was one of the first that he has sold this stuff to. so I am pleased. You may have some problems with CCV stuff but Derek will make it right if you let him.

[KTMRIDER]

Originally Posted by jydog

You may have some problems with CCV stuff but Derek will make it right if you let him.

I agree with this to a point, but that didn't pan out in my case. Derek did make an effort with a few interior items I had issues with immediately and he reimbursed me for a dent/chip he put in one of my doors, which was an accident. When it came to the bed collapsing episode he only offered to replace the broken pin, and that technically was what broke. I tried contacting him a few times and left a message by VM to discuss other options (which I was willing to pay for) but didn't get a call back.

Looking at it from his point of view being a small business I can understand his frustrations with me and my build and maybe my expectations were unreasonable to him, although I don't feel like they were. I thought after all the months of our discussions before the build we were on the same page with the quality and material expectations. This is why I say I wish I would have had everything in writing so that we were in fact on the same page. My lesson learned and hopefully others can learn from it too.

It was at this point I knew it was time to find a different option to fix the things that were falling apart. I needed someone that was closer to where I lived and someone who was more in line with what I was expecting as far as quality. I found him about 20 minutes from my house and have been more than happy with the results. I have taken the van back to this local guy several times to add more things and once to have him fix an issue with the toilet slide out cabinet.

For Derek maybe I am the one in 100 that was never satisfied with his quality of work on parts of my build. Commenting on real experiences vs throwing someone under the bus are two different things and I haven't read anyone throwing him under a bus just commenting on real world situations.
Eric