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Old 09-18-2009, 01:35 PM   #1
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Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

For a while now I've been toying with the idea of converting a standard cargo van into a more simple camper van to take on small mini-vacations (for me and my wife). This would serve as an "Intro to a Sportsmobile" until my finances allow a "real" SMB to be purchased, and this would also be a great opportunity to get some camping done as a "test" to see if I even like the lifestyle without dropping tons of $$$ on a SMB. I'm sure I'll like it, but if I don't, I'd rather not be in debt for $75k for a mistake. A DIY build will also educate me in the systems that go into an RV like this.

My problem with this idea? This van must ALSO provide safe transportation for my three kids. Add to this issue the fact that constructing a side-facing Gaucho-style seat/bed contraption is not only beyond my skill level for DIY, but could be a safety issue (although the DE DMV says it would be acceptable for side-facing passengers). I think (for now, while they're young) I'd prefer to have my kids forward-facing. But the RB/EB-50 layout isn't something I like (I won't get into why here).

SO, I've been looking through the Ford Body Builder Layout Book, when a great idea hit me:

Why not design a "Transformer" kind of van based around a Ford E-350 Van w/ the "Crew Van Package" option?? In case you're not familiar w/ this option, it basically takes a commercial cargo van with that cage thing in it, shifts the cage back, and adds a bench seat behind the cab seats, increasing passengers to 5 (3 on the bench seat).

This will allow a perfect seating arrangement for my 3 kids, AND allow for a simpler camping layout in the back for family camping trips. Like just for some storage and a kitchen, and a place for the port-a-potty.

BUT my idea doesn't stop there.....

When the kids aren't coming along, the 2nd row seat could be removed (at least I would hope this is an option via bolts), opening up the rear cargo area to transform it into a bigger camping layout, complete with a bed for two, the same kitchen unit, and more storage. OR, leave part of it open providing room for our two mountain bikes.... the possibilites become almost limitless.

The cabinets could be designed to be totally removable as well (nothing built-in), possibly on a simple track system, allowing the Transformer idea to work throughout the van, with multiple layout options depending on the purpose of the trip, and how many people will be going along. It also allows for an empty van if something like furniture moving is necessary.

A true MULTIPURPOSE TRANSFORMER VAN!!!

Being an architect and a CAD guru, layout design would be easy for me to do, and I'd have all the dimensions needed. Design would be thoroughly completed before any construction was started. I'm guessing some systems would have to be in-place permanently, like the 12v battery system, because no matter what the van would be used for, I'd want laptop/netbook access in it. But the fresh water system could be simplified a lot, to draw from 5- or 10-gallon water jugs or something, making it portable and removable.... I could even have SMB install a pop top, too. This whole idea is like a modular unit idea, where units could be added or removed easily based on the use of the van at the time.

So, what does everyone think? Could this work w/ proper planning? Or am I insane? Any suggestions would be welcomed, too!

Thank you.

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Old 09-18-2009, 02:28 PM   #2
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

I like the idea. I think your biggest challenges will be finding suitable methods to connect and disconnect electrical and water systems as a result of having removable cabinets. Hardly impossible, but challenging.

My read bed and seats are removable, but the galley unit isn't. This allows me to haul a fair amount of stuff.

So, when do we see some CAD drawings?


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Old 09-18-2009, 02:51 PM   #3
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

Sounds good - start drawing!

Water system could be entirely contained in the galley unit, with 12V pump - that way, just a simple electrical disconnect from the 12V system would be required. Or of course, you could have a simple hand pump, and no connection required at all.

Do you need the 'cage' behind the bench? Sounds like it would get in the way.

How old are your kids? Will they sit nicely together 3 abreast? Or would you be better off with two rows of seats for the kids? Depends on whether you're a road trip kinda family (lots of driving) or a camping family (less driving, more living out of the van), I guess.

Standard E350 passenger van benches should fit into your cargo van. I'm told that the threaded lugs are usually there under the floor, so that the brackets bolt straight in (but you'd want to confirm). The standard benches have a quick release from their brackets - other than their incredible weight they're easy to get in and out (these things must weigh upwards of 300 pounds, no joke). There are also plenty of aftermarket bench seats, from places like discountvantruck.com.

Anyway, anything's possible with these vans (and enough money or ingenuity, usually both required)! Just go ahead and do it, you'll have a blast. You can camp out of it along the way, before you're done, and make changes to your plans as you figure out how you're going to use it.

Cheers!
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:59 PM   #4
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

Herb:

Thanks! I'm glad my idea isn't crazy! LOL.

I really think this could work out to be a decent Transformer Van, and very functional when I have my kids! I actually completely designed this same concept for installing into my minivan a few months ago (removable cabinet/sink/water system, convertable rear seat-to-bed w/ leg extension, etc) but time/money/etc wasn't there at the time, plus my minivan is getting up there in mileage so I don't want to put much into a vehicle that I won't be keeping around much longer. Once my minivan "goes away" (along with the monthly payment on it) I'll replace it w/ a van to do this conversion in.

I had already planned out a portable water system for the minivan conversion, so I'll probably take that idea and modify it a bit, and put it into a portable kitchen module.

I think the cabinetry design will be relatively easy since I do this thing for a living. The construction of it shouldn't be too difficult, either. I've done some of this kind of stuff before.

I believe you're right: the electrical will be the biggest challenge, since the main part of the system will need to be permanent, yet allow for the easy connect/disconnect of other modules. Plus, I have no clue about installing anything electrical like this, so there will be a HUGE learning curve.

....

Mike:

Thanks for the post!

Great idea for a simple disconnect on the water pump. I think that's what I was envisioning as of right now.

No, that cage thing (and related frame/hardware) would be removed.

My kids are younger, at 9.5, 8, and 6.5. They sit perfectly fine (i.e. non-fighting) all next to each other in my car's backseat now, so a bench seat in a van should be fine, too. If they act up, I can always threaten to lock them in the back "cage" for punishment! LOL...

good to know about other seating options, too. I'm assuming the "original" bench seat that comes w/ the crew van option would suffice, although the weight scares me. I have enough trouble moving the minivan's rear seat by myself....

Thanks for the encouragement!

....

All:

As fas as seeing CAD drawings, I only got this idea a little while ago. I must do some sketches and think it through in my head for a while first. I'll post up my ideas/designs as I get them, so I can get everyone's feedback and input on this.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:47 PM   #5
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

The completely self-contained water system sounds like a good idea, but don't forget about a gray water tank.

You may want to think about a system of subsystems. I think having one galley unit containing everything might get a bit heavy and awkward to move in and out. If you have a series of subassemblies, it would be easier to move in and out. Of course, that would likely increase the overall weight and complexity.


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Old 09-18-2009, 05:05 PM   #6
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/vie...php?f=2&t=3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by jage
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:31 am

I think it would be cool to build a transformer style with a galley that you could remove- have a big 12v plug for power and clamps around the base, a fitted drain for graywater and you could pull the whole cabinet as one piece if necessary to get the entire van back.
Hmmm, looks like I scooped you by about 7 days!

As I see it you need one major 12v plug, like the portable winch plugs, and a drain in the floor that a grey water tube can fit inside of, so when you pull the unit the greywater drain is flush with the floor, the greywater tank permanently underneath the van.

The fridge is probably one of your biggest problems and if you make that a separate unit, 2 adults could probably move the rest of the structure in or out if it's empty.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:46 PM   #7
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

Herb,

I'd be using an empty 5 or 10-gallon water bottle for the gray tank. This idea comes directly from my minivan conversion design. But thanks for the reminder! I have to leave room for that, too.

I was assuming I'd have small manageable units, sort of like 20-inch or 24-inch "cubes" that I could easily remove or swap out.

As for the weight of the entire unit, I'd not only keep the weight down by keeping each unit smaller, but I also wouldn't finish the units on all sides. Again, talking about my minivan cabinet design, it's only finished on the side you'd see. I'm envisioning a stick frame sort of structure, with fronts and tops finished. The rear, and at least one side, would remain unfinished and open to help keep the weight down.

....

jage,

Yeah, it sounds kind of like your idea I suppose. I hadn't seen your post until now. But it sounds like we're thinking along the same lines, in that the pieces could be removed so you could use the whole van as a furniture moving van if necessary.

I wasn't envisioning a gray water tank installed permanently under the van, although that's a good idea. I kind of figured I'd use empty water containers as the gray water, and have it next to the water source.

Yeah, I agree that the refrigerator will be the biggest issue for moving in and out of a van. The other cabinets should be a piece of cake, but something like a frig, with all its possible connections, will be a beast to design around. I'll have to research frig's too, just to get a better idea about them.

....

Keep the ideas coming everyone! This is great input/feedback!!! Thank you. I'm going to do some sketching now, before bed. My mind is swimming w/ design ideas! I have to download them to paper or I'll never sleep! LOL.
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:19 AM   #8
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_in_delaware
Yeah, it sounds kind of like your idea I suppose. I hadn't seen your post until now. But it sounds like we're thinking along the same lines,
Great minds, right? I figured you hadn't seen it, I just think it's weird how similar things come up so close to one another! At least I know I'm not crazy or stupid (at least about this one thing!)... although admittedly I'd never considered actually moving the unit, or breaking it into components until your posts.

Quote:
...a frig, with all its possible connections, will be a beast to design around.
I believe you might be over thinking it. An electric fridge has 3 possible connections. The first (which is easy to forget) is the condensation drain. SMB just has this passed through a plastic sheathed hole in the floor, and a tube slides out when you pull the fridge, even in a permanent install.

The other two are power: 12v and 110v. Even if you elect to use the 110v it's just a plug, and your invertor will be a few inches away. The 12v can be a plug too, and you can design the fridge to be the last possible thing to remove- such that you get 95% of the van back leaving the fridge clamped in place and removing everything else, and then if you really absolutely need that extra floor, you can pull it with help. You can't really skip the 12v but the 110 is probably redundant if it comes down to space.

My biggest concern for a build like this is that you'll design everything to come out easily and then never really have a reason to do so. If the fridge can come out, but probably won't, it can also double as a structural anchor, off of which you can hang your easy to remove modular components.

Oh yeah, I'm also thinking of the 4cf Norcold I'm familiar with. The smaller one is probably manageable by one person... they're both mostly styrofoam.
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:08 AM   #9
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

Dave,

Your project is similar to the way I am thinking mine, full SMB with a modular approach.

4-5 front seating seats / bench, sleeping for 4 and ability to remove the cabinets.


My concern of doing this is weight regulations in Europa... must keep the total weight of the van below 7715 pounds At least at the time of periodic control

I have thought of the following points:

- Modular design
- Fastening the cabinets on aluminium airway rails for removable mounts of cabinets and straps fastening when used for cargo + flexibility of fastening.
- For the fridge, I am not going to take a build in one but a transportable unit (for exemple Engel or similar) and design a space to integrate and fasten(slide out rails maybe).
- Water: built in one element or one side as was mentionned above
- Gas: no built in tank, use rechargeable cans / bottles.

I might even go to some extremes with the choice of light weight material.
That's a futur item...

Will be interested seing how you will design yours
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:56 AM   #10
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Re: Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jage
... An electric fridge has 3 possible connections. The first (which is easy to forget) is the condensation drain. SMB just has this passed through a plastic sheathed hole in the floor, and a tube slides out when you pull the fridge, even in a permanent install. The other two are power: 12v and 110v.
Oh, OK. I was thinking that fridges also run on propane, but I guess now that you can get different kinds. I thought it was only an "all power sources in one" sort of choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jage
My biggest concern for a build like this is that you'll design everything to come out easily and then never really have a reason to do so. If the fridge can come out, but probably won't, it can also double as a structural anchor, off of which you can hang your easy to remove modular components.
My initial thoughts were to just do a built-in setup, but then I realized that I've used my minivan for various tasks over the years, and it might be a good idea to have a vehicle that could haul furniture around if I needed to. This homemade SMB will replace my minivan eventually, so a removable RV and bench seat setup sounded like a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jage
Oh yeah, I'm also thinking of the 4cf Norcold I'm familiar with. The smaller one is probably manageable by one person... they're both mostly styrofoam.
Good to know. I'll probably go w/ the 3CF one anyway.

I had been thinking (as of last night) that I'd probably have the fridge and battery built-in and permanent, both of the same side, so that at least one side of "RV units" could be removed to allow for more cargo space. Maybe the fridge and power source get perma-mounted right behind the bench seat, and then they'll act as a "base" where everything else hinges off of, at least on that side. Then the other side of the van could be totally removable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewST
Your project is similar to the way I am thinking mine, full SMB with a modular approach. 4-5 front seating seats / bench, sleeping for 4 and ability to remove the cabinets.
Ah, more great minds thinking alike....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewST
My concern of doing this is weight regulations in Europa... must keep the total weight of the van below 7715 pounds.... I might even go to some extremes with the choice of light weight material. That's a futur item...
The way I'm envisioning my units is a simple frame with only minimal facing (front) and a top of course. The sides and back and bottom would all be "open" which should help reduce the weight of each unit (and save on materials). Then, depending on what sort of unit it was, only adding the parts needed (sink and pump, or shelves, or whatever).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewST
- Fastening the cabinets on aluminium airway rails for removable mounts of cabinets and straps fastening when used for cargo + flexibility of fastening.
I had considered putting some sort of rail system on the floor to "accept" and allow easy sliding of each unit, until I remembered those danged wheel wells are in the way!!! Ugh. You could build the rails UP and over that 9.5 inches, but that's adding unnecessary weight and wasting floor space. So, I've concluded that the rail system might only be on the floor against the side walls, where the mounting system would hold the units in place. A few units would also have to be constructed to fit over the wheel wells (just like SMB does) yet still drop in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewST
- For the fridge, I am not going to take a build in one but a transportable unit (for exemple Engel or similar) and design a space to integrate and fasten(slide out rails maybe).
Maybe by the time i'm ready for this, my idea will change, but I had been thinking about a more portable unit instead of a straight-up 3CF Norcold one. We'll see what happens. I need to research brands and sizes and etc to see what my options are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewST
- Gas: no built in tank, use rechargeable cans / bottles.
I was planning on having a built-in tank, because I want to use a portable camp grill for cooking both inside or outside, so I'd need the connections at a few places. I also want another gas connection inside as I plan on using a catalytic heater for my heat source (no furnace). I haven't decided on a water heater yet, as the black-pipe-on-the-roof-rack system intrigues me....


Thanks again everyone! Keep the comments coming. I'll be drawing up the plan and section in CAD today (hopefully) so I can start designing things to-scale. I also want to visit the Ford Truck dealer near my house, and another used van place, to see if I can get inside a van w/ the crew bench seat option, and take some measurements/photos!
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