Mounting a Composite box to E350 Cutaway Chassis?

[VanHallen]

Originally Posted by b. rock

https://www.maltec.org/toyota/

The cruiser weights range from 5800-6800 lbs. That's what I referenced in my post. 5800 lbs for the 80 series camper is definitely surprising - but if you ditch the sheet metal past the cab, you're dropping quite a bit of weight.

I haven't watched the full vids yet, but it's worth noting that unimogs and vehicles of that size tend to design frame twist as part of the suspension travel. Pretty apparent in the last few seconds of the 2nd vid. Bit of a different philosophy compared to the E series. It'd be interesting to see some of the full size trucks with flat bed campers off road and see how much wiggling is going on there.

The success of people selling 6 figure campers with some amount of off road chops would definitely bode well for a RB sized E-350 4x4 composite camper of similar quality and finish.

The the videos take some time and are a little dry unless you really dig this sort of thing It took me a few cups of coffee to get through them. I do realize the Unicat series are dealing with truck 3 - 5 times the size of we're considering here. However we are still dealing with full size vehicles that don't always fit on jeep trails. The pieces I felt were relevant from the Unicat videos are

1) extensive experience with boxes just like the one in question
2) Vehicles that are purpose built and off road capable, similar to this project
3) The importance Unicat places on isolating the composite panel box from the chassis (in other builds the body, cargo box, camper actually add to the over structure)
4) How suspension is a completely separate consideration from the 3 - 4 point mounting system. These trucks still use similar leaf springs and shocks as to what's in the converted e series.
5) Conducting static test to see how twist can / should be evaluated prior to installing the box and mounting system. This is where UJOR who has done a 4x4 conversion on a bare chassis can actually see the extent of twisting, and flexing occurs. Most conversions are done with a body installed that has completely different material properties. THIS AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION. I certainly cannot discern the twist in my 2003 SMB as the body is hard mounted and absorbs, limits, resists these forces. A composite panel box attached the same way would crack or buckle. UNICAT knows this.
6) Conducting dynamic / operational evaluation after the box has been installed
7) The importance of oversizing suspension and mounting systems when off road use is intended. Due to small production numbers, Unicat is more interested in failure proof systems and less interested in low cost driven solutions.

I agree that there is space in the higher end market for a configuration like this. I think there was some reluctance among these type of builders as Ford has waffled on the e350's future, even skipping the 2020 model year. But maybe there will be renewed interest with Ford's investment with 2 versions (premium / economy) of the 7.3L V8?

[1der]

"I certainly cannot discern the twist in my 2003 SMB as the body is hard mounted and absorbs, limits, resists these forces....

if you want to see this just get your axles crossed up and look at your bumpers relative to the body. Been three and was VERY surprised. Hence why Aluminess has the straps at the tops of the rear bumper posts to allow movement between body and frame.

not mine but this is the idea looking at the front bumper

[VanHallen]

Originally Posted by 1der

"I certainly cannot discern the twist in my 2003 SMB as the body is hard mounted and absorbs, limits, resists these forces....

if you want to see this just get your axles crossed up and look at your bumpers relative to the body. Been three and was VERY surprised. Hence why Aluminess has the straps at the tops of the rear bumper posts to allow movement between body and frame.

not mine but this is the idea looking at the front bumper
Attachment 39544

Thanks for posting this!!! These things are really pretty awesome in what they can do!

You really have to look above the frame to see the twist and flex to know the extent the body is taking in these situations. Below the frame is all suspension and articulation, especially if there's disconnected sway bar. Because the body can handle these forces it counteracts some of the twists and flex. A body with different characteristics could....well...explode...haha! Here's another video I found a couple of hours ago that explains this much better than what I can do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTkwDz-T_Rg

[mk216v]

Originally Posted by VanHallen

The the videos take some time and are a little dry unless you really dig this sort of thing It took me a few cups of coffee to get through them. I do realize the Unicat series are dealing with truck 3 - 5 times the size of we're considering here. However we are still dealing with full size vehicles that don't always fit on jeep trails. The pieces I felt were relevant from the Unicat videos are

1) extensive experience with boxes just like the one in question
2) Vehicles that are purpose built and off road capable, similar to this project
3) The importance Unicat places on isolating the composite panel box from the chassis (in other builds the body, cargo box, camper actually add to the over structure)
4) How suspension is a completely separate consideration from the 3 - 4 point mounting system. These trucks still use similar leaf springs and shocks as to what's in the converted e series.
5) Conducting static test to see how twist can / should be evaluated prior to installing the box and mounting system. This is where UJOR who has done a 4x4 conversion on a bare chassis can actually see the extent of twisting, and flexing occurs. Most conversions are done with a body installed that has completely different material properties. THIS AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION. I certainly cannot discern the twist in my 2003 SMB as the body is hard mounted and absorbs, limits, resists these forces. A composite panel box attached the same way would crack or buckle. UNICAT knows this.
6) Conducting dynamic / operational evaluation after the box has been installed
7) The importance of oversizing suspension and mounting systems when off road use is intended. Due to small production numbers, Unicat is more interested in failure proof systems and less interested in low cost driven solutions.

I agree that there is space in the higher end market for a configuration like this. I think there was some reluctance among these type of builders as Ford has waffled on the e350's future, even skipping the 2020 model year. But maybe there will be renewed interest with Ford's investment with 2 versions (premium / economy) of the 7.3L V8?

The Unicat info is definitely gold. Thanks again for sharing with everyone here VanHallen.

I thought it was really interesting how Thomas said they start with the body(cabin/module/habitat) and then choose the truck(chassis). But they also have a whole lot more options, especially robust LCF(low cab forward)/COE(cab over engine) which are already 4WD/AWD, than we have here in the USA <crying>.

[VanHallen]

Originally Posted by mk216v

The Unicat info is definitely gold. Thanks again for sharing with everyone here VanHallen.

I thought it was really interesting how Thomas said they start with the body(cabin/module/habitat) and then choose the truck(chassis). But they also have a whole lot more options, especially robust LCF(low cab forward)/COE(cab over engine) which are already 4WD/AWD, than we have here in the USA <crying>.

I thought it was incredibly generous the level of detail and explanation Thomas has provided and so many builders are hush-hush about the details. His passion for his product and the community is quite evident.

I'm currently reading through the "Build your own Overland Camper" by Steve Wigglesworth which is consistent with Unicat's engineering but does offer a few more ideas.

With Ford's production issues due to chip shortages, I was told e350 lead times were at least 28 weeks. I'll likely wait until their production resumes before placing an order.

[mk216v]

Originally Posted by VanHallen

I thought it was incredibly generous the level of detail and explanation Thomas has provided and so many builders are hush-hush about the details. His passion for his product and the community is quite evident.

I'm currently reading through the "Build your own Overland Camper" by Steve Wigglesworth which is consistent with Unicat's engineering but does offer a few more ideas.

With Ford's production issues due to chip shortages, I was told e350 lead times were at least 28 weeks. I'll likely wait until their production resumes before placing an order.

Was and is (other videos of theirs), you're very right. What a treasure trove of information/experience. 16T is a bit large for me to be honest, maybe I could live with a 12T, LOL.

Do you know Wigglesworth's background?

[VanHallen]

Originally Posted by mk216v

Was and is (other videos of theirs), you're very right. What a treasure trove of information/experience. 16T is a bit large for me to be honest, maybe I could live with a 12T, LOL.

Do you know Wigglesworth's background?

Don't know anything about Wigglesworth but saw the book recommended on Expedition Portal and it appeared and is thorough. It's a good reference. In this day and age things get dated pretty fast like solar and battery systems, but most of it is still quite relevant.

For me, I'm really trying to keep it at 4Ts Dry

[b. rock]

Summertime bump. Did you get anywhere in your conversations/exploring on this yet?

Neighbor had someone camped in their driveway over the 4th w/ a Phoenix chassis mount camper on a newer Ram and it jogged the memory.

[VanHallen]

Originally Posted by b. rock

Summertime bump. Did you get anywhere in your conversations/exploring on this yet?

Neighbor had someone camped in their driveway over the 4th w/ a Phoenix chassis mount camper on a newer Ram and it jogged the memory.

b. rock, Yeah, I got a bit derailed and will revisit at a future date. When I looked into ordering the e350 cutaway it was going to be at least a 6 month delivery (chip shortage/supply chain issues, etc.) and then we decided the timing was right to move out of state later this summer. Once we have the move behind us, updates to the new place and the dust settles, we'll revisit.

[TooSteep]

Originally Posted by mk216v

...
EV/MG 4WD; well for starters, a safety bonus are the factory 14.3" big brakes for no charge, since they use very late model front axles. Ease of install with no welding. Totally open source help with all of the part #s laid out, so you can find the best deals on parts yourself. MG is SUPER helpful with questions, even if you haven't bought anything from him yet/with those still learning.

...

What is EV/MG?