1997 BornFree 4X4 Ford RV - $32500

[Viva]

Originally Posted by E277

Viva, what did you get instead?

I ended up with a Chinook (21', molded fiberglass, rear door). It started mostly because the pop-top aspect of the SMB wasn't working well for my particular uses (charming as it is). Also my SMB was an RB. If it had been a fixed top/EB I doubt I would have changed at all.

(I also have 2WD, although I do like to get back into remote places, so I can see where something more modified would have an advantage. I'm actually keeping half an eye out for an EB/high top that is 4WD or that I could lift/modify/convert to 4WD as a maybe...)

Although I think an EB/fixed top would have suited me, once I was actually looking for something "new," I thought it might be nice to have something a little bit "more different" than my RB/PH top. So I started looking at small Class C's. Actually, form-wise, I think a big Sprinter van might work really well for me, but they are as of yet too new/expensive for what I wanted.

My background is in boating (and so of course there is much fiberglass), and so I probably "know too much" about how and why things can leak or fall apart. So a few of the Class C's I really liked "house wise," I ended up ruling out - just because I knew I would like awake and worry every time it rained, etc, knowing "too much" about the construction.

I even almost got sucked into a Class A for awhile because you can find some that are really well made/high end (albeit older so cheaper), but then I came to my senses and realized that I would never be able to get to half the places I like to go. But I was attracted to the quality. (And I only say "sucked in" because it really wouldn't work for my current purposes, not that there is anything wrong with having a Class A.)

Originally Posted by E277

True on those seams, I just meant the fiberglass would probably hold up longer than the TPO and rubber roof models as long as the seams were sealed properly.

I do hear you on that. The individual panels are still more durable than rubber, etc. I imagine (although I know very little about other types of RV roofs).

Originally Posted by E277

Also, from what I understand in talking with others, you wouldn't want it completely one piece either b/c it would stress other parts of the shell while driving with it shifting around all over the place. I assume you would want a little play in the roof.

I'm not necessarily in agreement on that. I hedge slightly, because I'm more knowledgeable on boats, but for example with a fiberglass boat, you want it as rigid as you can possibly get it. Fiberglass "wants" to flex, but the monocoque type construction works best when it is a rigid unit, so most of the structural things in boats are there to KEEP the fiberglass from flexing and to assure one rigid unit (to the extent that is possible). Failures can be traced back to something flexing that should not have, and flexing fiberglass back and forth is just like metal in that it will fatigue. So say in my Chinook shell, which is a one piece molding (with a tabbed in floor that is a separate piece) the less it can flex the better.

What I am not sure of is how the fact that an automotive frame must surely flex is accounted for. Boats certainly take a pounding and the ocean tries very hard to flex them (and they DO flex, no matter how hard you try not to let them), but I imagine it is somewhat different with an automotive frame, and I'm not really familiar with how that works, design-wise. I see that pickup trucks have a separate bed. But OTOH, vans are one piece, so I still suspect that for our purposes (Class B or small C) not flexing is better when it comes to the rear shell. I don't know how they handle it in expedition type 4WD campers (whether or not they are molded fiberglass).

I see that Chinook made Baja models that were 4WD, and from what I have been told the shell was not any different. Still, I think I'd be nervous exposing mine to too much flexion (i.e. putting one part of it on a different plane than the other). Edited to add: That said, that's not because it is fiberglass; more because I didn't built it or watch it being built, so I just don't know how well it is reinforced. It may be super durable (and certainly that is possible to do). A well made fiberglass boat, wherein I know how it's constructed or have reinforced it myself.... I'll bash that through a LOT.

Not speaking to any specific brand, I see plenty of things in many rigs that could be done better or in a more sophisticated/modern way, but I imagine they aren't due to cost, and also somewhat due to "this is the way we have been doing it, we're busy, and plenty of people are buying them." When you are busy making a product I imagine it is not easy to decide to instead spend time researching/implementing new ways to do it.

Okay, long winded, sorry. Note that I wouldn't have "interrupted" someone's personal for sale ad for this. OTOH, this is a referral ad (to a CL posting) so it seems less "unclassy" (I hope!).

[mooserpete]

First time poster, but have been on the site learning about SMBs for a little while. Still trying to decide what the best fit is for our road trip this summer (2 adults, 2 young kids, 2 dogs), and really like the idea and look of the SMBs more, but am starting to think something like this may be a better fit and more comfortable. We'll take it on dirt roads, but no hardcore off-roading.

Does anyone have any general thoughts on that? And specifically, any thoughts on the price of this BornFree? Or other things to consider?

Thanks

[Viva]

Maybe sacrilege, but for a summer road trip with four people and two dogs, and "only" planning to go on dirt roads, maybe a medium sized Class C (just watch for long overhang aft if you like to take dips on narrow roads where you can't get diagonal). But then too, it all depends on how you camp, how you travel, and how much you like to be close. I can see people doing it in a VW bug and being happy (especially with a screen tent, etc.). Maybe tell us more about how you like to travel and camp?

[daveb]

Originally Posted by mooserpete

First time poster, but have been on the site learning about SMBs for a little while. Still trying to decide what the best fit is for our road trip this summer (2 adults, 2 young kids, 2 dogs), and really like the idea and look of the SMBs more, but am starting to think something like this may be a better fit and more comfortable. We'll take it on dirt roads, but no hardcore off-roading.

Does anyone have any general thoughts on that? And specifically, any thoughts on the price of this BornFree? Or other things to consider?

Thanks

That depends on your family and where you want to go.
Speaking of smaller vs large I'd consider if I'd need a shower/head first off. Not that it can't be done, but adding shower compartment almost is a deal breaker in a small rig hauling larger groups of people because it eats up so much space.
The overall size of the vehicle makes some forest service roads non-passable and sticking a bigger RV in a mud bog could pose more of a problem getting it out unless you have a true expedition vehicle with rated recovery points. 4x4 would be better suited to prevent having to chain up in snowy conditions with vehicles the size of a sprinter.
Hauling an expedition trailer behind a Ford van might be a solution. Added cargo space and pop up tent could work for some families. I'd think it would probably depends on who sleeps where and the age of the kids. Sleeping 2 kids and 2 adults in a Ford isn't a problem until the kids grow up. Seems one or more of the kids will want to bring a friend along as well...at least that's how it went with my family.
I don't know the towing capabilities of the Bornfree RV's but there is also the idea of hauling a smaller SUV behind it (if it's possible) to use as the exploring vehicle.

I think that RV for sale is very nicely done. It would be fantastic IMO just for the luxury alone but I would never consider taking it where I go. Maybe you consider where I go extreme but I bought my van to get away from people and that means getting into the backcountry. There are times where I felt my van it too big for the trail and I have plenty of brush scratches I'd rather not have. JMO.

I'd love to have a larger size vehicle like that to cross the country. I've always wanted to pull my bass boat and hit some of the best fishing lakes the US has to offer. One of my bucket list goals.

[BajaSportsmobile]

I have a couple of 4x4 Class B vans and I can tell you that women love a real bathroom and shower.

I would like a smaller 4x4 Class C for an Alaska trip but I would never pick anything but my E350 4x4 Penthouse SMB for Baja.

Four in an SMB seems like a crowd to me.

[mooserpete]

Thanks for the input.

We need a vehicle that will spend 90% of the time on paved roads from coast to coast, but be able to handle the occasional foray offroad (again, nothing hardcore), mostly to get away from people, campgrounds, etc... and to trailheads where we can backpack into the backcountry.

Three things keep coming up for me when looking at SMBs:

1) storage--we need storage for outdoor gear (backpacks, stoves, sleeping bags, flyfishing gear, etc... basically lightweight camping gear). This means either roof storage, or I guess a trailer would be an option.
2) must have rear A/C, and be able to run when the van is off and no shore power, as we may leave the dogs in for 6-8 hours now and then, and need it to stay comfortable. This means we're limited to SMBs that have a Starcool A/C and Onan generator built-in, right?
3) Gas vs. diesel-- we've definitely decided on gas, which eliminated lots of the vans out there...

4x4 is not completely necessary, although nice. For all those reasons, as much as I want and love the idea of an SMB, I'm wondering if something like this van (class B) makes more sense right now.

Hard to get an idea on pricing though, especially for this van since it seems unique. Any feedback or ideas anyone has on price would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

[daveb]

Originally Posted by mooserpete

Thanks for the input.

We need a vehicle that will spend 90% of the time on paved roads from coast to coast, but be able to handle the occasional foray offroad (again, nothing hardcore), mostly to get away from people, campgrounds, etc... and to trailheads where we can backpack into the backcountry.

Three things keep coming up for me when looking at SMBs:

1) storage--we need storage for outdoor gear (backpacks, stoves, sleeping bags, flyfishing gear, etc... basically lightweight camping gear). This means either roof storage, or I guess a trailer would be an option.
2) must have rear A/C, and be able to run when the van is off and no shore power, as we may leave the dogs in for 6-8 hours now and then, and need it to stay comfortable. This means we're limited to SMBs that have a Starcool A/C and Onan generator built-in, right?
3) Gas vs. diesel-- we've definitely decided on gas, which eliminated lots of the vans out there...

4x4 is not completely necessary, although nice. For all those reasons, as much as I want and love the idea of an SMB, I'm wondering if something like this van (class B) makes more sense right now.

Hard to get an idea on pricing though, especially for this van since it seems unique. Any feedback or ideas anyone has on price would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

Maybe rent a sprinter to see if that is to your liking. SMB is starting to produce a 4x4 version although I'd be cautious about taking a sprinter into the rough looking places like the owner of the Bornfree is showing even though it's open terrain.
A pop top makes for sleeping 2 adults and 2 smaller kids pretty nice.
A starcool is a thing of the past but both the Danhard and the Starcool require a generator. Both of those plus the generator take up space.

[Viva]

Originally Posted by mooserpete

2) must have rear A/C, and be able to run when the van is off and no shore power, as we may leave the dogs in for 6-8 hours now and then, and need it to stay comfortable. This means we're limited to SMBs that have a Starcool A/C and Onan generator built-in, right?

I don't have experience with the Starcool, but in general that sounds like a tall order for any smaller rig. I do know a few folks who have dogs and leave them unattended in warmer weather, but they specifically have Class A's with diesel generators that have auto-start, plus a front and rear AC (I mean, separate from the cab AC). Even with that they may seek out a campground with hookups so that the generator is only a second defense. That way they have more insurance against failure.

I have had dogs for years, and I wouldn't leave them in a smaller rig with a gas generator and AC running. I'd just be way too afraid of coming back to disaster. Also, people at trailheads (who might not realize the "why") might get tired of hearing your generator run and then...

If it were me I think I would either hike in cooler climes or make sure to find dog-friendly trails.

I don't mean to sound super negative, so sorry if I do. I probably feel less strongly about humans who choose to "rough it" since they are generally capable of getting themselves into and out of situations. (And I did leave my dog in my camper at times, but in cooler climes with shade/vents open and plenty of water - no reliance on mechanical means of cooling.)