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Old 06-09-2020, 07:33 AM   #1
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2008 E350 V10 Engine chugging / rattle noise

This is for my Quigley '08 E350 V10, it has about 140k miles on it.



Have a question for the gear heads or anyone else who may have experienced this. I think starting in the last 6 months or so I've noticed a kind of chugging / rattling engine noise that occurs at certain throttle positions. Here are some observations I've noticed
  • Noise occurs at two distinct RPM / load ranges: 1) is if the engine is pushing hard up a hill (probably more than 3000 RPM) 2) just above idle - so picture your driving on a flat road or gentle down hill, you give it a little bit of gas and the noise comes up, but give it more gas and the noise goes away.
  • The noise tends to be produced at higher speeds (highway around 45 to 70 mph) but after I've been traveling at that speed if I go to city street speeds (35mph) I can still hear the noise
  • I cannot reproduce the noise in park or neutral
  • I have noticed that the noise typically doesn't come up if I'm only driving at city speeds, not sure if that's to do with how warmed up the engine is or what
  • I don't notice any particular loss of power or other mechanical feedback when the noise is happening.
  • noise appears to be getting worse / noticeably more frequent compared to 5 months ago, I think when it first started happening I only noticed it when the van was on cruise control going up a hill and would start increasing the revs to maintain speed, but now it is much more frequent and occurs regardless of cruise control being used or not.
My brother is a diesel mechanic and was in the van recently with me, he said that it almost sounds like an exhaust leak but he doesn't think it is one because it is intermittent and only occurs at certain throttle positions / RPMs.



I've tried to take a video of this to capture the noise I'm talking about. Check out this link here to a google drive folder .



Any thoughts on what this might be are appreciated.



Thanks!
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:11 AM   #2
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Have you checked the exhaust system hangers? I've had broken hangers before and they certainly amplify the sound and can vary based on vehicle speed and/or RPM.


Another thought is the exhaust manifold bolts.




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Old 06-10-2020, 03:37 AM   #3
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Has this van had its OBD-II system scanned for any DTC's? Is the CEL or SES lamp illuminated? Or is there an icon in the dash cluster showing an outline of the engine?

This could be a bad COP as the described symptoms point in that direction.

Under a light or no-load condition the V10 would seem to be running fine due its power but under acceleration or maybe pulling a load a slight misfire could be at the root of this.

An injector could be at fault too---scanning the OBD-II system would be my first step.

HTH
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:46 PM   #4
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Unfortunately no check engine light so i don't think there would be any codes



What is a COP?



I did a some checking and spoke with my mechanic, he's suspicious it may be the lashing adjuters or the rockers or a sticking valve



I also read that loose spark plugs on the verge of blowing can cause this so i think i might check the torque on the plugs, thats the least difficult thing to troubleshoot ...


Any other thoughts appreciated.
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:52 PM   #5
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COP = coil on plug. So thereís no distributor, the coil pack is directly above each cylinder.
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Old 06-12-2020, 05:48 PM   #6
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Friday Bump!



Question - is this engine a 3 valve or 2 valve, i've heard people say both ... any definitive answer on this?



Here is what I've seen other forums say the top 3 issue is:



1. Potentially lose spark plugs about to blow
2. Bad Lash Adjuster
3. Bad rocker

4. sticking valve - maybe I should just sea foam the shit out of this thing ???



Anyone else experience this type of ticking engine noise?
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Old 06-13-2020, 06:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Anderson View Post
Friday Bump!

Question - is this engine a 3 valve or 2 valve, i've heard people say both ... any definitive answer on this?

Here is what I've seen other forums say the top 3 issue is:
1. Potentially lose spark plugs about to blow
4. sticking valve - maybe I should just sea foam the shit out of this thing ???

Anyone else experience this type of ticking engine noise?
First off E-Series gasoline engines NEVER received the troublesome 3V heads---never.

A loose plug might have already let go by now BUT it would be a great idea checking torque on the plugs ASAP. Its not the easiest task if you've never DIY replaced the plugs but if there's no record of the plugs being changed at some point then you're long, long overdue for that maintenance step; replace, re-torque and re-assemble.

Sea Foam might be an answer but every Ford Modular Motor seems to have a tick of some kind. The list of reasons can include exhaust manifold studs breaking and all the way up to issues with the cam timing chains developing issues.

Try crawling under neath the van while its running carefully listening and looking for any signs of something amiss. Look upward to the exhaust manifolds to see if any soot is present from a leak there. Next remove the doghouse, raise the hood and maybe remove the air filter (temporarily) looking and listening there too.

If you discover anything post a short video of the noise--no need to narrate it to any lengthy extent other than describe where you think the noise originates.

HTH
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Old 06-13-2020, 01:10 PM   #8
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Is there any possibility of taking another video?

In the current video, it doesn't sound sharp enough to be mechanical, but it could also be getting muffled by the camera mic, especially since there's a lot of ambient noise, which can attenuate the high frequencies. If you are able to take it again, it would help a lot if windows are up, air is off, no talking, and roll into the throttle. Doing the on-and-off thing makes is impossible to tell the sound is progressive or binary.

Some other thoughts... If it is mechanical, it would be top-end. Doing a drive without the doghouse, then holding a long screw driver to the cylinder-head will amplify it at the end of the screwdriver, if it is coming from within the head.

Rocker problems are almost unheard of in the 2-valve V10. But valve noise can happen, from either a collapsed lifter, or a broken valve spring. But a collapsed lifter usually happens more when cold, under higher RPMs but light load, then goes away once warmed up, or under heavy load. A broken valve spring however, would be more RPM dependent. These have been reported on occasional from '00-'04 and seems to stem from a QA issue.

Another though is an exhaust leak. I don't suspect a spark plug in this case or even broken manifold, because again, those should be most prominent at lower RPMs.

Does this van have EGR? The emissions label under the hood will says either Low-Emissions Vehicle, CARB-compliant, or 50-state legal. If it does have EGR, I'd try to do some diagnosis there. The RPMs and load-conditions where this happens is what makes a little suspect of the EGR. If the EGR valve bolts broke or backed off, it will make this noise under those conditions, because it's effectively straight-piping one of the exhaust ports. And this might not even trip a code, because it's downstream of the differential pressure sensor, and might not suck in enough air that o2 sensor can't compensate.
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Old 06-13-2020, 05:58 PM   #9
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I'll throw something simple out there. My 5.4 made a similar rattle under similar loads, but it eventually did get bad enough to experience a loss of power. One day I finally thought "that's coming from under my seat, not the engine compartment!" I crawled under the van, removed the fuel filter, cut open the old filter (which had relatively low miles on it) and sure enough, a piece of sheet metal that was formally spot welded inside had come loose. $9 and 10 minutes later, I had a new fuel filter installed and the noise was gone. Not saying that's your issue, but it wouldn't be a waste of money to try.
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:48 PM   #10
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I'll try to take another video soon.



Thanks for the feedback, I'll check on the egr valve i dont know if these vans have them or not. hoping to spend some TLC time with the van soon but am painting my entire bloody house this weekend, 15 hrs of painting today I'm exhausted... trying to build out a van and sell a house at the same time is a lot of fun lol





might have a chance to get under the engine tomorrow or Monday
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