6.0 PSD to V-10 Swap?

[renegadeoverland]

Originally Posted by carringb

I suspect this would be even more difficult....

...

Lastly, while the 7.3L is promised to be designed for durability, I'm sure it will take a year or two for production to meet the quality of the V10.

they also promised the 6.0 PSD would be as reliable as the 7.3 PSD it replaced .... well we can see how that worked out... just sayin

My two cents is that the cost to switch to a gas platform from a diesel is going to be 15k+ (assuming paying someone to do the work) based on conversations I have had with my shop on doing a gas to diesel conversion on other projects. The amount you have to swap over creates a long list of materials you need (agree with the donor vehicle idea mentioned if you really want to go this route) that would create a fairly good cost to begin with and then a large amount of labor to swap all the bits and bobs to swap systems entirely.

10k dollars is only 200 hours at a reasonable 50/hr rate (most shops I trust are operating around 100/hr shop rate). I would not be surprised that a project like this would be a min of 100 hours of labor given the time taken to swap a 502 to a 5.3 ls in my Willys. That leaves only 5k for all other costs which is not a lot.

My personal opinion is to put the money into the 6.0. I am very much not a fan of that platform due to the shear number of problems people have (you are another one on the list now). When I was looking for my van, every 6.0 was passed through the equation of purchase-price + 20k for bullet proofing/other random costs = total cost of van -- this made me simply decide to not buy a 6.0 since noone wanted to discount their vans enough to cover that cost.

That said I think a post bullet proofed 6.0 can be a solid reliable platform that once fixed and properly addressed is more stable and not as likely to continue sucking money (though that is theory based on conversations with people I trust. I understand a) that I cant speak from experience and b) once burned its hard to remain in love)

The other option I would say is good is the 6.7. From talking to a few different people with more knowledge than myself, the 6.7 is actually a good platform with far far fewer problems than the 6.0 and the 6.4 (I was told is the closest to the 7.3 of the 3 post). The only real drawback to the 6.7 is it was built in a way that makes it nearly impossible to rebuild so once you get to 500k miles and you need a rebuild, you cant (something about thinner cylinder walls or something making it hard to do any rebuild that involves resurfacing the cylinder walls etc).

Anyway that hope this longwinded opinion is somewhat useful :-)

[IanF]

Originally Posted by carringb

I suspect this would be even more difficult....

1) This would still have to pass emissions for the year the van is built, so you'd need the entire evap system, cats etc. Except on brand new motor, you'd be sourcing all that brand new. It'll take a while for parts to trickle into the recycling stream. Of course, emissions compliance varies by state, but any questions over compliance can make it a hard sell. And we don't even know what the cooling system will look like. Based on projected power outputs, that could be changing as well.

2) The 7.3L's engine managements system is will be built for the new generation electronics architecture, which will be quite a bit different that what E-series have now (and haven't' changed much since the 6.0 came out in 2004). Next year's E-series is gaining all the fancy wizardry and gizmos found on passenger cars, so I suspect the engine management would be difficult to integrate with an older van, unless they also release a standalone controller.

Lastly, while the 7.3L is promised to be designed for durability, I'm sure it will take a year or two for production to meet the quality of the V10.

That is why I said "crate motor" and not sourced from a salvage yard. While I don't argue the wiring will be a PITA, they will be no different than doing a V10 swap, which will require a harness swap as well. When the majors offer crate motors, they typically offer a stand-alone harness and other ancillaries to fit the engine into various vehicles with minimal pain.

Considering the engine was just introduced, I doubt we'll see it in crate form for another few years - probably with accompanying SEMA show trucks for inspiration. As such, I would generally believe early production bugs will have been worked out by then.

Emissions requirements will be somewhat state dependent. No different than doing a 6.0 PSD to V10 conversion.

This is really just an academic discussion to me. I wouldn't do what the OP is suggesting at all. By all accounts I've read, once "bullet-proofed" a 6.0 PSD is a good engine. It just may take some time and investment to get there, but it would be a far better use of $$ than any gas engine swap.

[Offroading_is_Fun]

Gonna follow this thread to see where it ends at..

Originally Posted by carringb

No, I was referring to the Cummins 6.7L, which is the kit Michael/MGMetalworks developed for the vans. That is a good motor, and would add some substantial curb appeal.

I'm interested to know how much such a conversion would cost... I assumed so much of what was done to his van was simply because it was a side project and he was doing it for self enjoyment/proof of concept more than anything else.

I think he said he had also grabbed a... 5/6/7(??) speed Allison to put behind it, and I'm sure that probably wasn't cheap either. If its a diesel-diesel swap I would think the 5R110 could be reused rather than a 5.4L-diesel swap where the 4R75W would likely need replaced with something beefier.


I've been quietly curious to see if anyone on this forum had done a 12 or (even better/more complicated) 24V cummins swap into their van...

I'm also curious if the van Michael has functions as intended from the factory (All the lights/gauges work). Something tells me that hooking up a motor is only part of the headache, and doing the electrical is the other half.

[IanF]

More info on the Cummins/Allison conversion is here: https://expovans.com/conversions/e-series/

My guess on cost is probably along the "if you have to ask..." lines. Were I to throw out a WAG, it'd be around $30K, probably not including a 4x4 conversion. I kinda wish my 1992 was a candidate as with a 7.3 IDI, it would be a perfect base van, although I'm torn on the need for 4WD.

[brp]

You could look at sites like iaai.com for a crashed v10 and then do a body swap.

[ShuttlePilot]

Can I have your old 6.0?

[mgmetalworks]

6.7L Powerstroke won't fit well in a van. Too big IMO. The electronics aren't particularly friendly for swap applications either. Pretty technical swap.

A 6.7L Cummins swap can get expensive fast. On the other hand, recently I helped a guy sort out some ECM stuff on swap he was doing into truck. He did a "budget build" and ended up well under $20k to get it running I believe...until he got a taste for big HP and put a compound turbo setup on and beefed the internals. You can easily get into 40s or 50s if you're chasing power along with reliability.

The simplest route (which wasn't an option when I started my swap) is to get something like this:
https://www.facebook.com/ClevelandPa...6445080552941/

The swap requires the body comes off the frame. The Cummins is tall so not much room top and bottom but lots of room on the sides.

[IanF]

That would definitely be the "easy button", although they currently don't have any diesel drivelines in stock.

https://www.clevelandpap.com/product...gine-packages/

It still blows my mind a Cummins 6 will even fit in a Ford van.

[Railvan]

I've debated all these options but decided to put my money in the 6.0 diesel. The short version of my logic is this: Fix the problems and you know what you have. An engine swap will lead to all sorts of unknowns along the way. If hundreds or thousands of people had done the swap ahead of you, maybe that would be different, but unless you want to work out many bugs, I suggest fixing what you have will be easier and cheaper. I just spent $8,000 on bulletproofing my 2006. That money came from retirement savings so it was not an easy choice. I don't want to sell the van, and if I did I would still have to fix it first. I could have done the minimum to sell it and spent half of what I did, but I want it to run another 100,000 miles. Will that happen? Nobody knows that. Good luck.

[86Scotty]

This thread is making me tired just reading it. WAY too much trouble to swap a diesel to V10. I guess if you have a big shop and have done lots of engine swaps, etc. this would be different. This would mean you are probably the type who would rather spend a weekend deciphering wiring harnesses rather than sitting by the caveman TV (campfire). Not me.

Just sell the diesel van, you'll make a ton of money, and build/buy a decked out V10. For reasons I don't understand diesel vans are still more valuable than gas ones even though they cost you more at the start, in the middle, in the middle, in the middle and more in the middle. Of course then you sell them for paydirt so someone else can restart the process. You'll enjoy lots of quiet camping trips with that V10 and once every few years you might get to be manly and swap an ignition coil.



Edit: Brian, I just went and reread your original thread. I'm not trying to bash diesels or derail your thread. I drive one daily and like unmolested ones that are reliable, but few are. I get that you like your van but I still think it will be a lot more work than you probably want to do, but that's just me. One 4wd conversion was enough to teach me that I'd rather just pay to have it done so I can go play. YMMV.