6.0 PSD to V-10 Swap?

[BVerhulst]

Hi all, I have a 2009 E-350 with the 6.0 PSD engine and 5 speed transmission. This is not a PowerStroke bashing thread; please don't turn it into that. Having said that, I must say that I'm disappointed in the PSD (I chose it because of how much I love my 2003 Duramax, and thought they'd perform similarly); guys really seem to love the V-10 (I was formerly unimpressed by it when driving fire engines with it, but maybe need to reconsider).

My 6.0 PSD is, as everyone says, high maintenance. Moreover, it leaks soooo much oil from the bed-plate gasket. I've invested plenty of money into it already, and it needs more very expensive fixes. So I'm wondering, is it worth putting another $10k into having these major jobs tended to in hopes that I get to 100,000 miles before additional major problems, or would money be better invested in a new engine (not replacing in-kind, but as the title suggests, change from diesel to gas).

This thread is about one thing: How much of a challenge would it be for a good mechanic (not me doing it myself; I don't have that kind of shop or capabilities) to remove a PSD and install a V-10? Insane idea because of every electronic module and supporting component (e.g. transmission interface?), or do-able but maybe still a little crazy? Yes, it would require everything from fuel pump to tank-fill spout including fuel lines... radiator? Electronics under the dash? I have no idea how comprehensive or overwhelming this would be. Can anyone share thoughts or information that would help me decide if this is an absolutely ludicrous idea or could be entertained? Anyone want to guess how much it would cost? Hey, some guys (MG) have put a Cummins in... (I wish).

This premise of an engine change is founded on an already awesome van-build. I love my interior and every other aspect of the van, and I want to keep it for a long time.

[Grampswrx]

I would think the easier way to do it might be a body swap of your body onto a V10 van. But if yours is 4x4, then you’d have to swap that too.

If a body swap is out, then you’d probably at least want to buy a complete donor van so that you’d have one of everything you would need. The list of parts you’d have to have to convert all the systems would be very long, easier to make sure you have it by buying another van. But then you’re looking at probably $10k for a v10 van (with an engine with less than 150k miles) before you’ve even started. And then when you finish, you have a disassembled donor and a PSD with related parts. In other words a big mess.

But I have never undertaken anything of this magnitude so I’d be happy to watch your thread evolve no matter what you decided. Good luck!

[carringb]

Are you sure the 6.7L conversion cost is prohibitive?

I'd do that before swapping in a V10, purely from the resale perspective. It's about the only engine swap that'll pay for itself if you had to sell it.

Dropping in a V10 would not be impossible. Body harnesses are the same, but the chassis harness is not, because the 6.0 has starting batteries on the frame and less under-body emissions equipment. The cooling stack would have to be swapped too, as the V10 needs a bigger radiator than the 6.0's. You'd also need to bring over the entire fuel system, including evaporative emissions system....So it certainly won't be easy. Even the transmission will need the torque converter traded out.

Newer 6.0's camper vans still get good prices. I think your best option is selling what you have now (steam clean under the hood but otherwise leave it as-is), then find an equivalent V10 powered replacement.

[winmag4582001]

If you were doing the work yourself, you could probably get a swap done for less than $10k. Unfortunately the shop rates here in Colorado are outrageous and the quality of technicians is extremely low. IMO, sell what you have and start over or fix the 6.0 and start saving for the next failure.
There's only a couple shops in Denver I trust with my stuff, and they aren't cheap at all, but quality costs $$$.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by BVerhulst

This premise of an engine change is founded on an already awesome van-build. I love my interior and every other aspect of the van, and I want to keep it for a long time.

Originally Posted by carringb

Newer 6.0's camper vans still get good prices. I think your best option is selling what you have now (steam clean under the hood but otherwise leave it as-is), then find an equivalent V10 powered replacement.

CarringB's suggestion is quite sound from the "easier" route out of diesel power ownership especially if this sort of swap would be hired out. Honestly I can't comprehend the costs associated with such an undertaking not to mention finding someone just like MG who'd work on the VERY cheap---easier to find a polka-dotted unicorn.

A body swap would be "easy" enough if it were a DIY project and there was a lot of time available for it. Of course the issue of what to do with the left over bits (complete body with no chassis, diesel engine/transmission in a chassis etc etc) looms large in the budget and space needs.

BVerhulst did you have a starting budget in mind for this sort of swap?

[BVerhulst]

Originally Posted by carringb

Are you sure the 6.7L conversion cost is prohibitive?

I'd do that before swapping in a V10, purely from the resale perspective. It's about the only engine swap that'll pay for itself.

Hmm, you’re referring to a much newer 6.7 Powerstroke? Don’t they have a litany of problems too? Would it even fit under the hood? I’m open to the idea... hadn’t thought of other alternatives like that. Would just require installing a DEF system... if all else is compatible.

[BVerhulst]

Originally Posted by JWA

BVerhulst did you have a starting budget in mind for this sort of swap?

I guess my starting budget is how much will it cost to fix my current problems. I’d rather invest a ton of money into a solution that won’t have the same problems a few more years down the road. Guestimate $10k for bed-plate gasket work? Anyone attest to that?

[carringb]

Originally Posted by BVerhulst

Hmm, you’re referring to a much newer 6.7 Powerstroke? Don’t they have a litany of problems too? Would it even fit under the hood? I’m open to the idea... hadn’t thought of other alternatives like that. Would just require installing a DEF system... if all else is compatible.

No, I was referring to the Cummins 6.7L, which is the kit Michael/MGMetalworks developed for the vans. That is a good motor, and would add some substantial curb appeal.

[IanF]

Rather than a V10 swap, I would wait until the new 7.3 gas engine is available as a crate motor. It is basically designed to be a dead-nuts reliable and easy/cheap to maintain fleet engine.

If I didn't have plans of using diesel to also fuel an Espar heater, I'd be tempted to do this swap in my 1992 7.3 IDI van.

Although if I'm really dreaming, the Expovan Cummins/Allison conversion is really enticing.

[carringb]

Originally Posted by IanF

Rather than a V10 swap, I would wait until the new 7.3 gas engine is available as a crate motor.

I suspect this would be even more difficult....

1) This would still have to pass emissions for the year the van is built, so you'd need the entire evap system, cats etc. Except on brand new motor, you'd be sourcing all that brand new. It'll take a while for parts to trickle into the recycling stream. Of course, emissions compliance varies by state, but any questions over compliance can make it a hard sell. And we don't even know what the cooling system will look like. Based on projected power outputs, that could be changing as well.

2) The 7.3L's engine managements system is will be built for the new generation electronics architecture, which will be quite a bit different that what E-series have now (and haven't' changed much since the 6.0 came out in 2004). Next year's E-series is gaining all the fancy wizardry and gizmos found on passenger cars, so I suspect the engine management would be difficult to integrate with an older van, unless they also release a standalone controller.

Lastly, while the 7.3L is promised to be designed for durability, I'm sure it will take a year or two for production to meet the quality of the V10.