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Old 11-15-2021, 08:44 AM   #1
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Adding factory limited slip and 4.10 gearing question

Last week I took my stock 5.4 V8 to the shop to get the gearing moved from 3.73 to 4.10 with a factory limited slip. Only thing compatible with my rear axle and it suits my needs.

Shop went in and installed the gears and had trouble getting the limited slip in. It was the wrong size. Order the right size and will be finishing it off this week. Told me to go a head and take it over the weekend and drive it till he gets the limited slip in. Told me I would hear a little whining on decel from 60-45mph and that would go away when he installed the limited slip.

Iím worried about that whine not going away. From what my mechanic friends have told and the internet there is a mix bag response on it shouldnít have a whine to all fords after changing gearing have some whine. Thought I would throw it out to the smb gods.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:48 AM   #2
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Itís 2013 E350 XLT 5.4 V8.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:23 AM   #3
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I just re-geared my 2008 5.4L from 3.73 to 4.10......


My van has a Full float Dana 60 rear, and subsequently has 32 tooth splined axles which are a little unusual for aftermarket limited slips like Eaton Tru-tracs which come in either 30 or 35 spline.


The factory LS diff in my van is a Dana Trac-loc (it uses clutches; the Eaton does not). Trac locs come in 32 spline so no issue with axles. If you wanted to use an Eaton (or something else) there are 35 spline axles avail (at least for the FF D60.....no idea on semi-float).


The whine on decel means that the ring/pinion are not shimmed properly; this needs to be sorted out when they get the correct Diff installed.


For Dana 60's the diff carrier is the same for "4.10 and down" .....so in my case re-gearing from 3.73 to 4.10 used the same carrier; these should be readily avail. It sounds like they procured the carrier for a 4.56 R&P...who knows.....


Replacing ring and pinion requires shimming the pinion (for both position/engagement with the ring and pinion preload) and shimming the ring gear for backlash. Insufficient backlash can cause whining and may result in excessive wear on the teeth. Excessive backlash can cause clunking when coasting or when first accelerating since the teeth are too far apart to engage properly.


The engagement of the teeth is checked using grease paint and reading the resulting pattern of the paint on the teeth after shimming by spinning the gears; it's a tedious iterative process to get the pattern correct.


That being said my re-geared diffs (front and rear) don't whine.....a correct setup shouldn't whine or clunk.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:24 AM   #4
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I am no expert on differentials but I have had at least a half dozen re geared, rebuild or replaced in various vehicles since the 80's. All of these have been done by other mechanics and my experience is this, they have either lasted forever without any issue or have spectacularly failed in the first 2000 miles or so. Nothing in between. Of the ones that lasted forever they were quiet and perfect from the first drive. Engineering describes this failure predictability as a bathtub graph. I wouldn't worry to much at this point but after it is installed for the last time, if it were mine, I would be sure to put down some "firm" miles while it was under warranty. This would get it further along the time leg of the bathtub graph of failure while someone else will pay for it.

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Old 11-15-2021, 09:34 AM   #5
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My interpretation is that they took it apart, found they had some of the wrong parts, and then put all of the original parts back in. So I think the old gears are still in the diff and they just didn’t take the time to set it up properly since it’s coming back out again shortly. Do you know if the new or old gears are installed currently?
If the new gears are installed, then yeah that noise is a problem.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:14 PM   #6
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I believe it was the new gears.
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Old 11-16-2021, 07:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boywonder View Post
I just re-geared my 2008 5.4L from 3.73 to 4.10......


My van has a Full float Dana 60 rear, and subsequently has 32 tooth splined axles which are a little unusual for aftermarket limited slips like Eaton Tru-tracs which come in either 30 or 35 spline.


The factory LS diff in my van is a Dana Trac-loc (it uses clutches; the Eaton does not). Trac locs come in 32 spline so no issue with axles. If you wanted to use an Eaton (or something else) there are 35 spline axles avail (at least for the FF D60.....no idea on semi-float).


The whine on decel means that the ring/pinion are not shimmed properly; this needs to be sorted out when they get the correct Diff installed.


For Dana 60's the diff carrier is the same for "4.10 and down" .....so in my case re-gearing from 3.73 to 4.10 used the same carrier; these should be readily avail. It sounds like they procured the carrier for a 4.56 R&P...who knows.....


Replacing ring and pinion requires shimming the pinion (for both position/engagement with the ring and pinion preload) and shimming the ring gear for backlash. Insufficient backlash can cause whining and may result in excessive wear on the teeth. Excessive backlash can cause clunking when coasting or when first accelerating since the teeth are too far apart to engage properly.


The engagement of the teeth is checked using grease paint and reading the resulting pattern of the paint on the teeth after shimming by spinning the gears; it's a tedious iterative process to get the pattern correct.


That being said my re-geared diffs (front and rear) don't whine.....a correct setup shouldn't whine or clunk.
This is good information for a diff noob. I'm presently awaiting a replacement from a local junkyard for my van's Dana 60 with 4.09, the result of a decision I had to make when learning that the howl from my van's rear end meant rebuild or replacement. Even with mechanical skills and motivation, the lack of specialized tools and knowledge (plus cost of rebuild kits and gear sets) made betting on a junkyard unit worthwhile. I would not have been changing ratios but the amount of work would have been the same.
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Old 11-16-2021, 08:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campism View Post
This is good information for a diff noob. I'm presently awaiting a replacement from a local junkyard for my van's Dana 60 with 4.09, the result of a decision I had to make when learning that the howl from my van's rear end meant rebuild or replacement. Even with mechanical skills and motivation, the lack of specialized tools and knowledge (plus cost of rebuild kits and gear sets) made betting on a junkyard unit worthwhile. I would not have been changing ratios but the amount of work would have been the same.

I'm pretty sure your 4.09 ratio is 4.10.....41 tooth ring and 10 tooth pinion.

41/10=4.10

There are special tools needed, the way I looked at it is that for less than the cost of labor I can buy the tools, use them, them sell them for 60-70% of what I paid for them.......and get two big advantages.....

...which reminds me...I need to list the bearing puller and setup bearings for sale....

I learned how to properly install a R&P (loads of info online/youTube) and I know it's done properly. If it fails I know the idiot who installed it.

Although the job is repetitive/tedious, it's lots lighter than installing a new axle.....and I refreshed all the seals/bearings while in there.
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Old 11-16-2021, 11:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boywonder View Post
I'm pretty sure your 4.09 ratio is 4.10.....41 tooth ring and 10 tooth pinion.

41/10=4.10

There are special tools needed, the way I looked at it is that for less than the cost of labor I can buy the tools, use them, them sell them for 60-70% of what I paid for them.......and get two big advantages.....

...which reminds me...I need to list the bearing puller and setup bearings for sale....

I learned how to properly install a R&P (loads of info online/youTube) and I know it's done properly. If it fails I know the idiot who installed it.

Although the job is repetitive/tedious, it's lots lighter than installing a new axle.....and I refreshed all the seals/bearings while in there.
I believe you and until I actually looked at this thing I believed all the paperwork and lit about it being a 4.10, but both the axle tag and the BOM code indicate a 4.09. I'm not going to quibble about 1/100th of a turn unless it makes a difference ordering parts.


Underhood sheet on the van I'm getting the replacement axle from says the same ratio as the one on my van, while its axle tag also matches what's on my van.
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Old 11-16-2021, 11:36 AM   #10
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I had that same tag on my rear housing....could only decipher part of it.


Not sure there is a possible tooth combo to get 4.09..but who knows......


3.73 is 41 tooth ring 11 tooth pinion 41/11=3.727272727272 so they round that one up.
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