Are Ford 6.0's worth it?

[unreng]

There's enough information about powerstroke 6.0's on web forums to fill a few encyclopedia's, but this should get the ball rolling...

Talk to reputable mechanics who repair diesels, and a powerstroke 6.0 is a good engine, if:
1. it's maintained...religiously. meaning, only use quality filters (International or Motorcraft/Ford), oil (synthetic 5w40), sensors (international or Ford/Motorcraft), fuel, etc. and stick to the recommended maintenance intervals.
2. it's built how it should have been from the factory. Ford & International saved money on the design where some extra dollars would've ensured longevity. F&I also changed diesel design from the 7.3 to 6.0, which brought it's own issues.
3. read / study / learn the engine to know how it operates, and the general issues that can occur. understand the shortcuts Ford created to shoehorn the 6.0 diesel in a van, and the potential remedies.
4. there are upgrades available to make a 6.0 diesel a robust engine...ask a lot of questions, and request maintenance history, for any 6.0 diesel you're considering.

carringb used to own a diesel shop, so there's an invaluable resource.

definitely do your homework...compare a 6.0 diesel to the 6.8 gas.
the 6.0 diesel can be a wonderful engine, but it requires more user/owner awareness.
the 6.8 gas appears to be more user friendly.
a cost-benefit comparison of the two engines should help decide.

some websites to read:
https://oregonfuelinjection.com/serv...gnostics/#2003
https://www.littlepowershop.com/comm...ues-and-fixes/
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum107/ - the tech folder is extremely helpful
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...ch-folder.html
https://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-...ning-6-0l.html
Things to consider about owning a 6.0L
Here is the deal with the 6.0. Any good tuner (person writing your tunes) is not going to give you a tune that is going to tear up your truck. There are trucks all over the place running 400-420 rwhp with 750-800 rwtq all day long without problems.

Yes the 6.0 is known to blow head gaskets. This is why it happens. The Ford Gold coolant contains silicates. The silicates are not able to handle high EGT's generated by a good load or relatively high boost when they run through the EGR cooler. They break down into a gell like sludge and fall out of suspension. This crud gets caught up in the tiny coolant passageways of the oil cooler. As the cooler clogs up it restricts coolant flow to the egr cooler. Now the egr cooler doesn't have enough coolant to carry off the heat generated by high EGT's. The limited amount of coolant in the egr cooler flash boils causing high pressure in the cooling system and the truck pukes coolant from the degass bottle due to the pressure. (it has to go somewhere)
Your uninformed Powerstroke owner is not monitoring his coolant temps and oil temps so he doesn't know whats going on and he keeps driving it this way. The problem gets worse, the pressure causes the egr cooler to rupture. Now the egr cooler is leaking coolant into the intake manifold which then runs into the cylinders. Again the high combustion temps cause the coolant to vaporize. This causes unacceptably high cylinder pressure, the TTY head bolts stretch due to the add'l pressure and there go your head gaskets.

Ok now you know the problem. Here's the cure. Get a good engine monitoring solution like the Edge Insight so that you can monitor your ECT and EOT. If those temps get more than 15* apart with normal cruising when at normal operating temperature your oil cooler is clogging up. Rebuild it now to prevent all that down stream damage from occurring. Flush that Ford Gold coolant crap out of your engine with a couple bottles of Restore. This is made specifically to clean out that silicate residue. Now refill it with a silicate free Cat EC-1 rated ELC coolant. This removes the silicates that clog the oil cooler from the equation. If you live in an area where you don't have smog inspections delete the egr system. If you can't delete it replace the egr cooler with the cooler manufactured by Bulletproof Diesel. This is vastly superior to the Ford oem egr cooler and it will not fail on you. If you find that you need to replace head gaskets replace the TTY head bolts with ARP studs and use OEM Ford head gaskets, the black onyx (Victor Reinz) head gaskets have proven to have a high failure rate. If you have to replace the egr cooler always replace the oil cooler. That is the source of the problem.

Now that you have addressed the common problems that scare the he11 out of people, get an SCT tuner (i like the X3) and install some custom tunes and drive the heck out of it. DO NOT baby it. The Powerstroke hates this and will rebel with turbo issues.

Turbo issues are also common repair points with the 6.0. People like to complain that it's because the VGT turbos are pieces of junk. This is not so. The VGT vanes in the turbo need to be exercised regularly. This means making them go through their full range of motion. So put your foot in it regularly and let it see some full boost runs. That will keep your VGT vanes from getting all sooted up and freezing up because of the soot. Again, that is what happens when you baby it. Put your foot in it and you will have less problems. Lay out of it and try to milk it for mileage like you would a gasser and you're going to have turbo issues. Don't let it sit either. That is also the kiss of death to the turbo. The unison ring rusts up and again you have turbo problems. So now that you know you need to give your turbo a regular work out to keep it happy, give it a proper cool down as well. Just whipping into your parking place and shutting it down will lead to coking the bearings and again major turbo issues. Running a good synthetic oil will help here immensely because it handles heat so much better and resists coking. But always let your turbo have time to cool down. This is one of the reasons you need a Pyrometer (EGT gauge). Let the EGT come down to 350* before shutting your truck off. This only takes a couple of minutes, especially if you take it easy on it for the last couple minutes of your trip. If this is too much hassle for you get a turbo timer that will automatically delay shutdown when you turn off the key to allow the turbo to cool down.

Injectors. Ford's HEUI injection system fires the injectors with High Pressure Oil, to the tune of 4,000psi at Wide Open Throttle. Maintenance is critical here so you can not let your oil maintenance slide like you can on a gasser. It will kill your injectors. The injectors also are known to suffer from something that we call stiction. That is when the oil side plunger of the injector hangs up or sticks when cold until the truck warms up. I believe this is caused by varnish buildup that is common to dino oils, especially those containing paraffin. Using a good synthetic oil will take care of that because it actually cleans the engine as it lubricates. If you do find yourself with some injector stiction add a couple of bottles of Rev-X to your oil. It has cleared up 99.9% of the trucks it has been used on. 2 bottles run around $70. A new injector is about $250-$290. Be anal about keeping your oil clean and fresh and changing your fuel filters regularly. The other thing that kills injectors is low fuel pressure. The fuel pressure needs to stay above 45psi at all times and is typically set around 52 psi from the factory. Well the factory fuel pressure regulator spring is weak and looses it's tension over time and can't maintain adequate fuel pressure. There is an updated rebuild kit that uses a better, stronger spring. Installing this spring will bring your fuel pressure up to about 62 psi and solve that. Get a fuel pressure gauge. It's important.

So that covers the frequent complaints with the 6.0. They are all well known at this point as are the solutions. Does it suck we have to fix Ford's blunders? Heck yes it does. But again we know how and once done you will have a very reliable robust truck that is well worth the effort. So address the issues as you can and enjoy your truck. It is a dynamite vehicle. I love mine.

Regards.
Chris

[arctictraveller]

[QUOTE=86Scotty

My advice to practically everyone who wants a diesel SMB is to simply get over it. Do you want a reliable camper or a maintenance project? This is not popular advice here but it is my advice. Good luck and welcome to the gang!

[/QUOTE]

I'm no diesel expert, but what I do know is that my 5.4 has about 170k miles, and it has never had one single engine failure. I've lost a couple fuel pumps and two coils, but otherwise everything is original. You continuously read about diesel maintenance and repair issues, especially the 6.0, but you almost never read about any gas motor issues. Fuel pumps and coils are cheap compared to almost any diesel part. A Bulletproofed 6.0 can be a great motor if your willing to invest large sums of money and time into it, but Just finding someone qualified to work on it can be nearly impossible in some areas of the country. Best of luck with whatever you decide to get.

[DevineIntervention]

Nice summary, unreng, of what’s out there and things to consider. I won’t claim any experience other than reading a lot of stuff on the internet and talking to a few owners. I’ve been bit with the bug and basically learned go in with your eyes wide open and with a big enough wallet. But, then again, that is the truth about any worthwhile adventure in life.

[TomsBeast]

Originally Posted by unreng

Yes the 6.0 is known to blow head gaskets. This is why it happens. The Ford Gold coolant contains silicates. The silicates are not able to handle high EGT's generated by a good load or relatively high boost when they run through the EGR cooler. They break down into a gell like sludge and fall out of suspension. This crud gets caught up in the tiny coolant passageways of the oil cooler. As the cooler clogs up it restricts coolant flow to the egr cooler. Now the egr cooler doesn't have enough coolant to carry off the heat generated by high EGT's. The limited amount of coolant in the egr cooler flash boils causing high pressure in the cooling system and the truck pukes coolant from the degass bottle due to the pressure. (it has to go somewhere)


....The problem gets worse, the pressure causes the egr cooler to rupture. Now the egr cooler is leaking coolant into the intake manifold which then runs into the cylinders. Again the high combustion temps cause the coolant to vaporize. This causes unacceptably high cylinder pressure, the TTY head bolts stretch due to the add'l pressure and there go your head gaskets.....Flush that Ford Gold coolant crap out of your engine with a couple bottles of Restore. This is made specifically to clean out that silicate residue. Now refill it with a silicate free Cat EC-1 rated ELC coolant.... This removes the silicates...

Ahhhhh... the popular 'casting sand clogging the egr cooler' theory never made sense to me. It's the 'new and improved gold coolant' crystallizing when it gets locally super heated inside the egr cooler.



Finally a 5,000 ft view of the issue, cause and effect, and details as to how to fix it, all in a clear and concise few paragraphs, that makes sense

[Gr8ful]

I've owned many 12 valve Cummins & now this IDI also. I can buy a set of injectors for either of these for under $300/set. The Powestokes are over $3,000. per set so I now know where the name Stroke came from.

[Gr8ful]

One other advantage of the IDIs is NO COMPUTER. I just lost a 2000 over mice, wiring & computer. If you'f not using it keep storage insurance as it covers mpuse damage. arctictraveller we do agree that you know nothing about diesels. Hundreds or more Cummins go well over 1 million trouble free miles & man over 2 million. Just google 5.9 cummins million miles.

[daveb]

Originally Posted by schwam86

I'm new to the forum and hopefully soon a proud owner of a SMB. I'm fond of the Ford body and truly want a diesel over anything else. I'd love the 7.3 but they're extremely hard to find in good condition. So my question is to all of you who own the 6.0 out there. Can you school me on anything and everything you've had to dealt with since owning and operating your SMB?

When it comes between a V-10 or the 6.0 PSD you just need to figure if you can save enough overall in the purchase price of the vehicle to off set what you will probably have to dump into it later. Then you have more maintenance costs. I have more filters to replace and 16 qts of oil plus the additives all add up to a much higher cost per year just to maintain it. I usually dump my coolant every year or so even though I have a coolant filter. I also run fuel additive so more cost for fuel and although at one time diesel was cheaper than gas being it's more of a refinery byproduct, it sure doesn't seem to fall far below premium gasoline these days.


Another issue with my diesel is rough starting in very cold weather. I don't worry because I don't live in a harsh climate plus I have a Espar block heater.


And while I haven't seen anything about noise, the 6.0 is very loud where the V-10 is just the opposite. Nobody wants to hear it running if they're close by.


Lastly finding a 6.0 that has been taken care of (correctly) might be more difficult to find than you think. Most Ford vans are used as utility vehicles or worse ambulances. I worked for a power utility for 36 years and while I (and the shop) took care of my vehicles, the engine ran constantly from morning until my shift was over. Then there were those emergency response calls that required me to start and drive a cold engine hard. Not good. I'd probably feel better buying a van that has a 6.0 in if it were one that started as a van conversion in the first place and hope the owner took care of her correctly.



Not saying you can't find a good van with a 6.0 in it, but just be careful and JMO you might plan on making a little side fund with about $15K to cover costs if something does go wrong.

[Gr8ful]

Why buy something you know didn't work & was discontinued because of it?

[BrianW]

Originally Posted by Gr8ful

arctictraveller we do agree that you know nothing about diesels. Hundreds or more Cummins go well over 1 million trouble free miles & man over 2 million. Just google 5.9 cummins million miles.

To be fair, it should be obvious that @arctictraveller was referring to the 6.0 diesel, which is the entire focus of this thread. Throwing Cummins into the discussion as a proof point is useless, as these are virtually nonexistent in Econolines, except for a few retrofitted instances.

[Gr8ful]

All I know iswhat I read on the 6.0 This was in the link in my post "The dark times began in 2003. Faced with more stringent emissions standards, Ford introduced its least reputable diesel engine to date – the 6.0L Power Stroke. This engine was so bad that Ford and Navistar eventually went to court over it. It featured a glut of emissions equipment never before used, such as an exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve. A brand-new variable geometry turbo was also installed, bumping power up to 325 hp and 570 lb-ft. Unfortunately, a series of wallet-draining problems – such as blown head gaskets and faulty EGR coolers – continuously haunted the 6.0L."