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Old 01-09-2020, 09:43 PM   #11
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moorefc,
I was prepared to pull the seats (I borrowed the torx bits required) but I did not end up doing it. Honestly, I don't think it would have helped that much with access. The difficulty for access is more related to the stuff around the engine rather than the seats. I actually was able to put my chest on the seat to help have elevated access so I might even say it was helpful to have the seat there particularly on the passenger side. The driver side with the steering wheel was a bit tighter, but the access to the plugs on the driver's side is so much better that it was not a problem. Shoot me a message if you have any questions.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:55 PM   #12
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I read the same thing about torquing the plugs. The factory spec was 11 ft.\lbs. and this was revised up in a TSB to 24-28 ft.\lbs. after plugs started blowing out litterally through the hood. I used 20% less torque because of the anti seize. I used a very thin coating on the threads but left the 3-4 threads closest to the electrode clean and I also wiped the taperd seal on the plug clean on every plug.

All 10 plugs came out easily once broken loose. Carbon build up was not an issue for me.
See pics at the end of my second post of all 10 plugs. There are close ups of the ones in the worst shape.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I thought broken 2 piece plugs were an issue with 3 valve heads, and that all econolines (at least V10 econolines) have 2 valve heads?
^ Correct! No 2 piece spark plugs in the vans.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:32 AM   #14
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There's a bit of information here I find questionable and not well advised but I don't want to detract from CDA's great attempt to be helpful. Regarding Ford Modular Motor plugs.........

1. The issue of ejected plugs seems to be more of a head defect with the threads were cut. Installation (from factory or as a maintenance step) OR removal when NOT DONE properly can lead to thread damage and the ejection. This problem was more prevalent in the earlier years and before the PI (performance improved) heads were added to this family of motors. That doesn't mean a blown spark plug cannot be induced with poor installation and/or removal. To date no one single cause has been shown to be why plugs are ejected

2. Using nickel-based anti-seize is advised as it prevents the steel plug from seizing in the head threads. This greatly reduces removal effort and in its own way is a defense against difficult removal during the next replacement.

3. The 2 valve head plugs should ideally be changed at about 50K miles using the Motorcraft SP-479's. Any other brand has been repeatedly shown to be problematic on FTE--in a way this doesn't make sense yet it does seem true if we're to believe anecdotal experiences with more than a few reporting plug problems after changing them.

While its claimed plugs will last 100K miles that's just not the case in my experience. They've worn enough at 50K miles to warrant changing them. There's not a monumental improvement in performance with brand new plugs but fuel mileage improves enough to offset their minimal cost.

4. Torque to 25 ft/lbs with nickle-based anti-seize---no need to reduce that torque just because anti-seize is in place. The plug threads when properly cut and plugs installed correctly will withstand at least 90 ft/lbs dry torque as shown here: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ead-heads.html Interesting read to be sure.

5. Ford Modular Motors with the 3 valve heads NEVER found their way into the E-Series at any time during its life from 1997 to end-of-life 2013.

As a suggestion to CDACamper if you post photos during your process it greatly aids the description. After all a picture is worth 1,000 words.

Great effort though---'taint easy sharing such a process.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:29 PM   #15
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Having trouble understanding what's questionable and not well advised in my post. No big deal but here are my observations.

1. From what I have seen the ejected plugs are due to a combination a factory torque spec on the spark plugs that was too low (original spec was 11 ft.lbs.) and the heads are manufactured with only a few threads for the spark plug holes (subsequent versions of the v10 had increased thread count although they apparently never made it into the vans). I saw no reports of a "defect" and the ejected plugs are completely avoided by simply using the higher torque spec noted in a TSB issued by Ford. Essentially the problem disappeared once the new torque spec was used.

2. I did recommend using anti seize. Nickel anti seize is great if you can find it. I checked every auto parts store in my area and none carry nickel anti seize. Everyone I spoke to stated that the common anti seize Permatex 80078 is perfectly fine for spark plug application. The more important part is that it needs to be applied correctly. I researched anti seize at length because there is a lot of controversy on using it or not because pretty much all spark plug manufacturers changed their mind on anti seize and now advise against using it. This is a whole other story but in the end, I feel anti seize is a good idea if used properly and it's what I did and recommended above.
This is listed on the Permatex site for the 80078 product:
"Suggested Applications: For easy removal of spark plugs, cylinder head and exhaust head bolts; apply to anchor pins on brake assemblies, u-bolts and spring bolts, hinges, gears, chain, sprockets and rollers."
If the anti seize I used is truely questionable or not advised, I want to know and will remove the plugs if I have to but I found nothing to suggest the common Permatex 80078 I used is problematic. Please provide more info on this issue so I can decide what to do.

3. I specified the same Motorcraft plug you stated. Sure you can replace at 50k but not sure it's necessary at this interval particularly if your van is not abused/don't tow, etc.. The plugs are cheap but it's very expensive to pay to have them changed and not an easy task to tackle for the average DIY'er. I think it would be perfectly fine to change them in the 65-75k range unless your van has hard-earned miles. My engine at 87k miles idled silky smooth and the change in plugs and coils didn't have a perceptible change in how the engine ran. Can't say if it will get better mileage, but if it did I doubt it would be noticeable. Not sure this is questionable or now well-advised.

4. I did extensive research on the torque setting for the plugs and whether or not to use anti seize. I'm no expert but I didn't find a single source that recommended ignoring the industry standard of a 20% reduced torque value when using anti seize. In fact I found several that reinforced this recommendation on this particular engine and spark plugs. If it can take 90 ft. lbs. then why isn't the torque value 70 or 80 ft. lbs. since there is plenty of margin there? It's because people smarter than me figure out what these tourque values should be. I am very particular about using torque specs every time possible. I don't think it's good practice to over torque because I think the fastener can take it. I torque to spec and if using a fastener that is lubricated (whether its oil, anti seize or something else) I reduce the torque value by 20%. I think this is pretty sound advice.

5. I made no mention of a 3 valve head so not sure how I went wrong here.

I am no expert and don't claim any special knowledge but honestly I don't think there was anything questionable or not well advised in my post. I am all ears about learning and super thankful for all the awesome info on this forum (I have used it a lot). If there is something that is truly questionable or not avised I want to know about it and will start tearing the engine apart again to get it done and get it done right.

JWA, I do appreciate your feedback and yes I should have taken more photos. Hard to remember when you are "elbows deep" but will try to remember in the future. I'm certain you have far more experience with both mechanics and these vans in general so certainly respect what you've got to say!
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:12 AM   #16
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CDACamper, in #1 of your post above you mentioned that the deeper threads in the heads never made it to the 2v vans.
Found on Ford truck forum https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...n-a-v10-2.html Post #22. It describes and shows a picture of the casting numbers with the "PI" designation which means "Performance Improved" (deeper plug threads). Don't know if any other improvements. Mine is a 2004 EB 6.8. and it shows "6.8L PI" casting number. it can easily be seen on mine in the passenger wheel well on the front side of the head just above the front cylinder exhaust manifold front exhaust port.
Ford Triton V10 Service for some good info.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
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.
Ford Triton V10 Service for some good info.
That's a nice site--good general info on the Modular Motor series.

Thanks for sharing!
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