Cummins 5.0L V8 for Nissan and commercial applications

[BroncoHauler]

Originally Posted by mikracer

... Seems that putting upwards of $9k+ into bulletproofing is common...

Sure you can dump $9K into a 6.0L, but you can also just spend about $3K for a BP EGR cooler and a Ford oil cooler, and that is more than enough for 95% of 6.0L owners.

Beyond the $3K range, you're getting into a FICM, injectors, turbo,...


Herb

[mikracer]

Originally Posted by BroncoHauler

Sure you can dump $9K into a 6.0L, but you can also just spend about $3K for a BP EGR cooler and a Ford oil cooler, and that is more than enough for 95% of 6.0L owners.

Beyond the $3K range, you're getting into a FICM, injectors, turbo,...


Herb

Good to know. I don't know anything about the 6.0 diesel, just that people seem to be putting a lot of money into them to make them "reliable". Perhaps a lot of the people that are putting that much into them have the "while you're in there" mentality, which I totally understand. The only motor I had built was coincidentally a 6.0, but it was a GM LS2 for my Trailblazer SS. Had a quite a few "while you were in there" items too.

[BroncoHauler]

Don't get me wrong, $3K s still a lot of money, and I was pissed off to have to spend it. When the auto manufacturers rush to adapt to the latest emissions standards is when things tend to go off the rails in terms of reliability.


Herb

[Tapatio]

Not buying into preventative bulletproofing. Sure I'll replace with superior parts when things break but I'm not going to spend money until necessary. To date none of the issues I've had would have been prevented by "bulletproofing". (125k miles) that includes a new radiator and brake booster. Not including normal wear items like CAC boots, belts, brakes, batteries etc. It's been a great engine!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by mgmetalworks

......cut......

Thoughts? Do you think this is:

A) Definitely something you'd consider to keep your SMB going strong for years to come
or
B) Cool idea but probably going to be too expensive/not worth the investment
or
C) Stupid idea, I'll keep my 6.0 and take my chances

......cut.......

My primary thought/recommendation is that you ask them specifics about this 5.0L diesel V8 replacing gas-guzzler gasoline V8s and V10s. Their ads originally made it seem that replacing GASOLINE V8s and V10s would be possible due to 5.0L engine size and weight.

A bigger market for engine swaps/conversions might be the many Class As that are running Ford 6.8L V10s. I'd ask them what the maximum GVWR and GCWR apply to the 5.0 L Cummins. There are a lot of RVs getting less than 8 MPH

[carringb]

I think its perfect for most vans! I actually could see mass appeal to large fleets, especially buses and maybe even ambulance operators. Really, many aftermarket bodies are good candidates, since some of those units cost many times more than the original chassis! And... so does an SMB...

Because of that, I do think 6.0 replacements are the best target. Pay-off to swap a 5.0 diesel into a V10 would be really long . Payoff for a 5.4L replacement might not ever happen. But piece of mind getting rid of a questionable motor is priceless to many folks, and it could be easy to quantify a ROI based on down-time alone.

I do agree that most SMB/recreational user will probably go trouble-free, but mostly because they don't put on many miles. I put on 30-40,000 miles PER YEAR. I'm very familiar with the 6.0, and also able to do any of the common repairs. I would not drive one for my personal use without full bulletproofing. Trust me, I've thought about this a lot. I do want a diesel eventually for Central and South America touring (and something with less miles, since my current van will have a half-million by then). If I find a good deal on a newer 6.0 in good shape, I'll do the necessary upgrades. But if I can't find one in good shape, I'll just go with a high-mile (cheap) 6.0 and yank that out in favor of a Cummins.

I don't think the 5.0 CTD would be a suitable replacement for the the V10 in larger rigs. Under the medium duty test cycle, it would most likely be rated for much less HP. I'd guess maybe 230 max. Keep in mind the Cummins and Ford 6.7L diesels only make 300 HP in their 450/5500 platforms. And again, you have the ROI problem, where most RVs don't get driven enough to justify an extra $10,000 in motor to gain a few MPGs.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by carringb

.......cut........


I don't think the 5.0 CTD would be a suitable replacement for the the V10 in larger rigs. Under the medium duty test cycle, it would most likely be rated for much less HP. I'd guess maybe 230 max. Keep in mind the Cummins and Ford 6.7L diesels only make 300 HP in their 450/5500 platforms. And again, you have the ROI problem, where most RVs don't get driven enough to justify an extra $10,000 in motor to gain a few MPGs.

Ratings for motorhomes appear to be as high as 275 HP at 3200 RPM and 560 lb-ft at 1600 RPM. I would guess that should handle RVs at least as heavy as 20,000 pounds.

http://cumminsengines.com/isv?#ratings

And for whatever reason Cummins seems to be making an effort to compare this ISV5.0 V8 engine to gasoline alternatives. I don't know if their intent is comparing against existing or new applications.

http://cumminsengines.com/isv?#overview

I agree that most RVs don't get driven enough to make a swap economical, but that doesn't seem to stop everyone. In my opinion if this lightweight Cummins V8 proves itself to be a good engine, it would be perfect for smaller diesel pushers. Between the lighter weight and shorter lenght it might make smaller diesel pushers in the 30-ft range drive reasonably well.

[mgmetalworks]

So my meeting with Cummins was pretty good. Not a lot of info available on the ISV5.0 yet so I didn't get the technical details I was hoping for. However, the idea of putting together a conversion package is definitely worth pursuing further. The unfortunate part is that it will probably be about 7-9 months before the ISV5.0 is available to order for someone other than a major manufacturer. Realistically though, it might be a year before I'd be able to get one in-house.

Pricing isn't available yet but I was shown some ballpark numbers that seemed really reasonable. The after-treatment system being an unknown though and possibly pretty expensive (unless someone wanted to run the engine unobstructed by emissions stuff and tuned up for free flowing exhaust.... )

On to the next step!

[lndshark]

Originally Posted by mgmetalworks

So my meeting with Cummins was pretty good. Not a lot of info available on the ISV5.0 yet so I didn't get the technical details I was hoping for. However, the idea of putting together a conversion package is definitely worth pursuing further. The unfortunate part is that it will probably be about 7-9 months before the ISV5.0 is available to order for someone other than a major manufacturer. Realistically though, it might be a year before I'd be able to get one in-house.

Pricing isn't available yet but I was shown some ballpark numbers that seemed really reasonable. The after-treatment system being an unknown though and possibly pretty expensive (unless someone wanted to run the engine unobstructed by emissions stuff and tuned up for free flowing exhaust.... )

On to the next step!

Good on ya' for getting the ear of Cummins. They are SUPER secretive as diesel emissions and fuel economy are a very competitive aspect in the automotive world these days. I used to work in the automotive engineering field (for a competitor of Cummins, actually) and they would NEVER collaborate with other manufacturers. Later on, I worked in field service for an equipment vendor (servicing exhaust emission analyzers) and let me tell you, Cummins has made a MASSIVE investment in engine development. They are definitely on the leading edge of diesel technology.

I don't know if you'd want to avoid getting into the after treatment/SCR world either...lots of demand for 50-state legal compliance and the money is good for developing after-cat and urea systems!

[Chance]

This short video suggests the Cummins 5.0 Liter V8 is being tested in some RVs, with expected fuel economy in the 20 to 40 percent higher than a V10 (presumably Ford 6.8L). Of course that improvement is for a large RV. In a small van the difference could be more.

They mention production starting in November of "this" year (I assume 2014).

http://www.fmca.com/motorhome/videos/pl ... homes.html