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Old 02-20-2016, 09:54 PM   #1
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Diesel injector question.

After getting a bunch of bullet proofing stuff done I got about 100 miles or so on it and I had an injector that gave me some fits. #5 injector was said to have had some dirt/garbage in it. They removed that injector maybe more and they said they "cleaned them" It ran great for another 100 miles and its having the same symptoms. Runs rough, like a pulsing idle, with it in drive and foot on the brake stopped, it feels like it want to surge forward with the rhythm of the pulsing idle. Black smoke when heavy on the throttle. Highway speeds it runs ok but does lack some power and when I do let into the throttle it does get a bit dark from the tail pipe. So if its the same injector I say its time to change it out, do people change them all out or just the ones giving issues? Did just have the fuel tank pulled and checked for dirt, it was all clean but it did need to be resealed. Fuel filters are all clean and new and they did say the FICM did check out ok. However I do feel that from what Ive read about bad starting batteries killing FICMs that mine would have been subject to that do my own starting batteries being dead for some time.
Any thoughts on the matter or good advice would be appreciated.
Thank you
Tracey
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:57 PM   #2
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-The injectors aren't really "cleanable". There's some additives which can sometimes free up stiction. But only sometimes.

There shouldn't ever be "dirt and garbage" in there, unless your fuel filters aren't actually filtering. Are the OEM Motorcraft/Racor? Besides sub-standard filters, the only other way for stuff to get in there is because they didn't keep things clean when then did the work the first time. In either case, I'm tempted to say they owe you some more work to make it all right, if there is indeed debris in the fuel system.

Are you monitoring the FICM real-time? Just checking voltage in the shop isn't the whole picture. It should be monitored on the road, and after cold-starts.

Ditto supply fuel pressure. Has it been verified under full load?

If the above two things aren't verified first, you could be setting yourself up for repeat injector replacements.
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:25 AM   #3
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Verify the above. Then if you still have a bad injector change just it. 3 times I've had individual injectors changed and run many, many thousands of miles with no further issues. Of course, I can't imagine going to the trouble of pulling an injector and not replacing it.

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Old 02-21-2016, 09:46 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by carringb View Post
-The injectors aren't really "cleanable". There's some additives which can sometimes free up stiction. But only sometimes.

There shouldn't ever be "dirt and garbage" in there, unless your fuel filters aren't actually filtering. Are the OEM Motorcraft/Racor? Besides sub-standard filters, the only other way for stuff to get in there is because they didn't keep things clean when then did the work the first time. In either case, I'm tempted to say they owe you some more work to make it all right, if there is indeed debris in the fuel system.

Are you monitoring the FICM real-time? Just checking voltage in the shop isn't the whole picture. It should be monitored on the road, and after cold-starts.

Ditto supply fuel pressure. Has it been verified under full load?

If the above two things aren't verified first, you could be setting yourself up for repeat injector replacements.


I know they put in OEM filters and I know they checked out the fuel tank itself for dirt do to the fact that they put in a new sending unit seal because it would leak on extreme fuel fill ups. So they were concerned that if fuel was coming out that dirt could go in. Tank was clean, they resealed and should be fine. For some reason I think the mechanics were trying to save me some money by "cleaning" the injector, they said they have some sort of machine that test and clean them? Not sure what thats about. They did drive it with the computer on it monitoring it all and did say everything else was all good. I will insist they double check some of the other stuff again and replace what is suspect.
One thing about being under full load or not, Its very prevalent when just under a slow speed on back rough dirt roads when you can't be hard on the throttle. Under HWY speeds it does smooth out but is still there.
Im still surprised that the FICM actually works, when I found my dead start batteries they have been dead for a long time. Ive never seen such corrosion and pure nasty in and around the terminals. The one battery I did get out that looked a little better would not hold a charge at all. The other battery was so bad the post literally fell off the battery. My house battery had been doing the starting do to the way SMB wires up the sure 1315 separator. According to what Ive read a simple dead battery can kill that FICM let alone both batteries and how bad and how long they were dead for.
Anyways, back to the shop it goes....again.
Thanks for your help!
Tracey
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Old 02-21-2016, 10:23 AM   #5
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Bad batteries and weak alternator will kill the FICM but sounds like you're ok there. I'm confused but it sounds like your getting the run-around on the health of your injectors. You can't clean them. You can test them but for 99.9% of repair shops that means sending them out. That means removing them. This business about "cleaning" them probably means they ran some Hot Shot, Archoil, RevX or other additive through the oil and/or fuel to hopefully remove any crud or build-up.

Or, you can more simply do a cylinder contribution test using the ODBII port. But that only tells you how well the bad one is performing in relation to the others. It's $600+ labor to physically get to, inspect, and replace an injector. Black smoke implies that you are over-fueling. Worst case scenario is it's a cracked tip. If you keep driving it you run the risk of washing out the cylinder. The risk is too great. Make sure they do the cylinder contribution test. You have not mentioned how many miles are on your rig but my advice would be to replace all 4 on that side. The bad news is #5 injector is on the passenger side. That's the hard side to do which means raising the engine, removing the engine mount and then lowering the engine so the mechanic can get the valve cover off.

At the same time install the updated standpipe and dummy plugs which are updated OEM parts from Ford. Do the blue spring mod which replaces the fuel injector regulator with a stronger spring to ensure a healthy psi to help prolong injector life.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Bad batteries and weak alternator will kill the FICM but sounds like you're ok there. I'm confused but it sounds like your getting the run-around on the health of your injectors. You can't clean them. You can test them but for 99.9% of repair shops that means sending them out. That means removing them. This business about "cleaning" them probably means they ran some Hot Shot, Archoil, RevX or
Or, you can more simply do a cylinder contribution test using the ODBII port. But that only tells you how well the bad one is performing in relation to the others. It's $600+ labor to physically get to, inspect, and replace an injector. Black smoke implies that you are over-fueling.

At the same time install the updated standpipe and dummy plugs which are updated OEM parts from Ford. Do the blue spring mod which replaces the fuel injector regulator with a stronger spring to ensure a healthy psi to help prolong injector life.

I know the blue spring update and such has all been done.
As for milage I'm just a tick above 50 thousand.
I'm still thinking I might just ask them to replace the FICM and at least the one bank of injectors if not all of them just to be rid of this headache. I got trips planned and while I do have time I want this garbage fixed so I can get some milage on before we hit the road.
Has anyone updated their FICM to the higher output version, 58 volt or something of the like.?
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:11 PM   #7
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You don't need to replace your FICM. Take it out and send the power supply side to here: FICMRepair.com - FORD Powerstroke 6.0 FICM Repair, PHP Tuning and Truck Parts

There's 3 levels of service with the highest being a lifetime warranty. Or, buy the new power supply side from Bulletproof diesel. http://www.bulletproofdiesel.com/Bul...icmupgrade.htm

Note that BPD does not offer a lifetime warranty with their unit. I went with Ed at FICMrepair.com. Or, the best of both worlds is to buy the BPD version and then send in yours for the basic service and then you have a backup. Anyway, it's super easy to pull you just need to move the degas bottle out of the way and be VERRRRRY careful with the FICM connectors.

As for 58v, personally I'm not a fan. The benefits are debatable. Google it and read up on the diesel forums if you want to go that route.

edit to add: With so few miles has your mechanic ruled out the smoke and surging being turbo-related? Sticking vanes could cause some of those symptoms.
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:28 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=JoeH;169823

As for 58v, personally I'm not a fan. The benefits are debatable. Google it and read up on the diesel forums if you want to go that route.

edit to add: With so few miles has your mechanic ruled out the smoke and surging being turbo-related? Sticking vanes could cause some of those symptoms.[/QUOTE]

The turbo just had the new updated unison ring installed and completely gone through, it was a mess, barely working and was getting both codes from it.
I will look into those FICM repairs just to be safe. Now if those are done does the van need to be reflashed to keep the new tune happy? Or does the FICM have nothing to do with that?
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Old 02-21-2016, 10:30 PM   #9
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The turbo just had the new updated unison ring installed and completely gone through, it was a mess, barely working and was getting both codes from it.
I will look into those FICM repairs just to be safe. Now if those are done does the van need to be reflashed to keep the new tune happy? Or does the FICM have nothing to do with that?
No, you won't have a new tune so it does not need to be re-flashed. You could have a FICM tune added if you like and there are compelling reasons to do so. Your PCM tune won't be affected. But lots of folks get custom tunes for that as well.

edit to add for clarification. It's the power supply side of the FICM that goes bad and not the logic side.
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Old 02-29-2016, 01:49 PM   #10
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Well after the van has been in the shop for awhile now its looking like it is indeed an injector that has gone bad. Do to the time and labor cost Im still considering just changing them all out and be done with it. In our vans is it normal for them to change them while the engine is in or more common to pull the engine back out? I guess it can be done both ways but with the engine in, it seems like its a rough job?
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