Engine Mods for the V10 Ford what have you done

[Chance]

Originally Posted by carringb

.....cut......

My Weekend warrior was 41' long (custom build, with slide and 6" lift) and topped 18,000 pounds loaded. Hitch weight was 3200 pounds if the tanks were all full and there was no vehicle in the garage. I had to fabricate my own receiver (P.E. approved the design and fab). It was already a dually at that point because even my old 30' trailer would put me over the ratings of my rear tires.

......cut.......

A hitch weight of 3200 pounds is amazing. I'm curious what kind of WD hitch you use to keep front wheels on ground.

I'm also curious how law enforcement revises your van's GVWR? Even with a WD hitch, much of the 3200 pounds will end up as added load on the van, and if your van is heavy to start with, doesn't that push it over the 9500 pound GVWR (or whatever yours is)?

You have upgraded your van's axles to carry more than when new, but how is the new revised GVWR reported and/or documented? Do they not look at original rating on door frame?

[carringb]

Originally Posted by Chance

A hitch weight of 3200 pounds is amazing. I'm curious what kind of WD hitch you use to keep front wheels on ground.

I'm also curious how law enforcement revises your van's GVWR? Even with a WD hitch, much of the 3200 pounds will end up as added load on the van, and if your van is heavy to start with, doesn't that push it over the 9500 pound GVWR (or whatever yours is)?

You have upgraded your van's axles to carry more than when new, but how is the new revised GVWR reported and/or documented? Do they not look at original rating on door frame?

I used a Reese 17k Dual Cam hitch. It could not however restore full front axle weight, but it restored enough to make it drive well (and usually I had enough weight in or on the van to bring the front axle back to empty weight, or more).

Law enforcement doesn't care what my GVWR because I'm not towing commercial (or when I am, I'm under 26k anyways). If I did have to register commercial, I would simply register at my max weight. The only weights DOT or law enforcement cares about is tire ratings, federal bridge axle weights, and registered weight.

There is no reason to report or update my OEM GVWR as long as I don't sell the van with a revised GVWR. If I made any statement of a higher GVWR if I sold the van, then I would have to have on file any documentation for meeting current FVMSS's at the time of the build. But most important, the van fully loaded will out perform a stock van at its max rating under every metric: Acceleration, lateral Gs (peak and sustained), and stopping.

BTW - when I'm full loaded I'm right around 14,000 with the van and 22,000 total (occasionally 25,000). That's hitched up which means tongue weight is being measure as part o the van's weight. I have come very close to stalling out on a 15% grade after stopping for construction. Because of the hard climb and the sudden stop, the transmission temps spiked while waiting for the flagger, which put the van in Torque-reduction mode. I got going again, but barely. If I has 3.73 gears I would have been stuck until things cooled down.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by carringb

......cut.......

BTW - when I'm full loaded I'm right around 14,000 with the van and 22,000 total (occasionally 25,000). That's hitched up which means tongue weight is being measure as part o the van's weight. I have come very close to stalling out on a 15% grade after stopping for construction. Because of the hard climb and the sudden stop, the transmission temps spiked while waiting for the flagger, which put the van in Torque-reduction mode. I got going again, but barely. If I has 3.73 gears I would have been stuck until things cooled down.

If I could change only one part of my van's drivetrain, rather than upgrading the V10 engine I would replace the 4-speed with a 6R80 or 6R140 (not sure if it's even possible/practical or if 6R80 has torque rating for a 2-valve V10).

The lower 1st gear of a 6R versus a 4R would make a 3.73 axle pull like it was a 5.47 off the line. Yet the high end gearing would preserve fuel economy when not towing. Would certainly come in handy starting up a 15% grade.

BTW, I read where the 6R140 has a maximum combined weight rating of 36,000 or 37,000 pounds. It's probably an overkill for most vans unless pulling huge trailers like you do.

[carringb]

I would also love to install a 6R140!

I found converters that can translate PWN into CAN-BUS, but I'd be lost when it came to coding the protocol to make it actually talk together and get past the security protocols. Considering the potential hassle, I may instead go with a Gear-Vendors aux overdrive, which allows gear splitting.

We'll see... I'm currently on the lookout for an F450 or F350-FatBoy front axle and also a matched Dana 80 rear. I looking for larger axle because I can't find any Hub-cetnric 17" alloys with the 4.88" hub center. Lug-centric wheels always vibrate after a while once the lug-seats get chewed up. I'm at the point I need to replace the wheels again (I get about 140,000 out of a set) and I'd really like to move back to hub-cetric rims so they can be my last set. The wider track front track width and sharper wheel cut angle also appeals to me.

[MrWicked]

i weight the van yesturday with me in it no seats in the back 6960

[MrWicked]

rememeber Carringb your in OR.. but in cali they still check weigh for non commerical ..

[mgmetalworks]

Why the 6R140? Why not an Allison? People seem to think that the Allison is a weak trans but it is more misunderstood than anything. It is a great transmission with a long, proven history.

There's very little market for a 6R140 stand alone controller so it might be a while before someone puts in the effort to make a hack for it (I don't think it has been done yet...not much info about it online).

[carringb]

Originally Posted by MrWicked

rememeber Carringb your in OR.. but in cali they still check weigh for non commerical ..

Correct. They are looking for proper licensing as well. I haven't found any California regs restricting operating only to OEM GVWR, and when they setup the scales at Glamis I've read they are primarily looking for licensing violations, and will occasionally cite for tire ratings (enforceable in OR as well)when they see a monstrous toy hauler being towed without a dually, but I haven't heard of anyone getting nailer for being over GWVR. I have browsed California Vehicle Codes, and can't find any laws beyond tire and axle limits, which are the same as Oregon.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/ca...ebody=&hits=20

[Chance]

Originally Posted by mgmetalworks

Why the 6R140? Why not an Allison? People seem to think that the Allison is a weak trans but it is more misunderstood than anything. It is a great transmission with a long, proven history.

There's very little market for a 6R140 stand alone controller so it might be a while before someone puts in the effort to make a hack for it (I don't think it has been done yet...not much info about it online).

The 6R140 already comes mated to 6.8L Ford V10 in F-650. Mechanically should it not be an easier fit? Although it's so large I'm not sure it would fit under van's floor unless body is raised. One nice feature of 6R140 compared to Allison 2500 is a lower first gear.

By the way, would it be easier to install a 6R140 behind a V10 if the computer and wiring harness was installed as a unit? I've read that certain buses use the V10 and 6R140 combination, so does that mean a simpler stand-alone package could be used?

[Chance]

Originally Posted by carringb

.....cut.......

We'll see... I'm currently on the lookout for an F450 or F350-FatBoy front axle and also a matched Dana 80 rear. I looking for larger axle because I can't find any Hub-cetnric 17" alloys with the 4.88" hub center. Lug-centric wheels always vibrate after a while once the lug-seats get chewed up. I'm at the point I need to replace the wheels again (I get about 140,000 out of a set) and I'd really like to move back to hub-cetric rims so they can be my last set. The wider track front track width and sharper wheel cut angle also appeals to me.

Carringb, do you worry about a major failure like a broken frame? Unless you have upgraded that too, wouldn't the loads and towing you do fatigue the frame and other parts? Particularly with your high mileage.

I don't know the limits, but when I see that Ford uses heavier frames for E-350 vs E-250 vs E-150, it makes me think Ford engineers must consider the difference between 8600, 9000, and 9500 pound GVWR to be significant enough that it requires an upgrade.

I've seen a couple of broken frames, including one of my father's 4X4 pickup, and it's not something I'd like to risk. Granted, I tend to be cautious.