Engine Mods for the V10 Ford what have you done

[mgmetalworks]

Originally Posted by E350

When my 4R100 goes out instead of putting a John Woods transmission, I would love to install a 6R140.

Maybe this is something you could work on in your spare time . . .

I've looked at this trans a little since this discussion began... Are there any other transmissions you're interested in? Hint hint...

[carringb]

Originally Posted by E350

What about these?

DO YOU HAVE VIBRATION PROBLEMS ON YOUR NEWLY BALANCED AFTER MARKET WHEELS?

http://justforwheels.com/index.jsp?cat= ... ic&sub=how

My Ultra wheels were actually ok when they were new, however they have gotten bad over time.

A lot of people have success with those hub-rings and many new wheels offer them as an option. However my current dually wheels do not have a machined center bore, so I would be very surprised if they were concentric with the rims.

[carringb]

Originally Posted by E350

carringb: Do you have a link to a spec sheet which shows the width of the various Ford axles, rear and 4x4 front?

I do not. What I've been doing is pulling up the spec sheets from Ford Fleet for each year. I should have started a spreadsheet, but I didn't really think about it at the time. Maybe one of these days....

[E350]

mgmetalworks: I don't know enough about transmissions to select any other models. But carringb does, and I am willing to jump on his bandwagon.

Here is my deal. My 2002 7.3L got great fuel mileage (as high as 21.96 mpg during break in period driving 45-55 on I-5) in the configuration I ordered it with the 3.55 rear differential. When it was converted to 4x4 the converter changed the differentials to 3.73 and my mpg dropped from 16-18 (maybe sometimes ~19) to 11-12 (maybe sometimes ~13). And I effectively lost my overdrive - meaning I can drive up a pretty good hill without it dropping out of O.D.

And I like the idea that the transmission which carringb suggested will mate to the NV273 transfer case. Because my BW1356 is out for the second time (and I have some suspicions that the converter reduced the differential gearing to 3.73 because he was concerned about the torque of the 7.3L destroying the BW1356 T.C.)

So I have been dreaming of putting in a 6-speed to take advantage of a higher O.D. I assumed that it would have to be a ZF-6, but my neighbor who has a few OBS IDI's says they are a bear to drive with a manual. And I have since learned that with PCM tuning, the torque converter lockup can occur during shifts in a manner which maximizes mpg. Since I have to replace my injectors anyway, I think I may go with new Alliant AC code (IH) stock nozzle 160 cc single shot injectors. Eliminating the preshot in the stock splitshot and spraying all the fuel during the powerstroke apparently increases mileage without increasing emissisions due to the ULSD fuel used now. And since single shot injectors require tuning anyway, maybe staying with an automatic transmission with more aggressive T.C. lockup tuning is the best of both worlds?

And if I had a 6 speed auto with effectively two O.D.'s , then I might be able to get my overdrive back without re-gearing the differentials back to 3.55?

What say you?

The 4R100 is considered to be the weak link in the Powerstroke drivetrain over at the ford-trucks.com 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel subforum

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum31/

And is expected to fail with the increased power often achieved with injector tuning.

So everybody goes with a bullet-proof (lifetime or nearly lifetime guaranteed) 4R100 rebuild by either BTS (Brian's Truck Stop, in Arkansas)

http://www.brianstruckshop.com/

or by John Woods in So. Cal.

http://jwtt.com/services

But I would be intrigued by a Ford Powerstroke 6 speed automatic transmission instead.

And you would be a hero at the ford-trucks.com forum if you could pull that one off.

carringb: I too am running the 17" Ultra Wheel alloy. I will make sure that the lug nuts are secure and check out the hub centric rings for my application. Thanks.

[mgmetalworks]

The biggest problem with the 6R140 is that the transmission controller is part of the same module that runs the engine. If it had its very own TCM like the Allison, it *MIGHT* be something that could be made to work in a stand alone application. As it is though, getting it to shift is not going to happen without tons of reverse engineering and van loads of cash. I'd love to be the hero but I just don't have the resources to take on that kind of development effort without a clear path to a decent return...

I had a 2001 F-series with a 7.3L and a six speed manual... it was fine on the open roads and drove well but in traffic it was a little annoying. It would probably be the most straightforward trans swap of them all though...

An Allison could be made to work with a 7.3L... Destroked has an adapter plate kit for it. My biggest complaint about the Allison is the cost. It is a great transmission and it will work well in a lot of different applications but the bottom line is, you're going to be paying for it. I've managed to find a killer deal on my Allison 6-speed and I've scored many of the parts for my conversion much cheaper than you'd find if you bought it all new and I'll still have many thousands into it (more if I choose to upgrade some stuff). A more accruate name for an Allison is "Add-a-zero" because you basically take normal transmission parts prices and then add a zero to the end. As far as 6-speed autos go though, this is probably the easiest to make work in your application.

[E350]

10-4.
Now back to your regularly scheduled V10 Engine Mod talk.
(But don't sell yourself short on the hero category...)

[carringb]

Originally Posted by MrWicked

we ended up getting this trailer

2003 28ft Carson Racer with from bath it needs alot of work and up grades but i got it for a real good price.... it is a heavy beast empty no batts no propane tanks no beds it weighed in at 8140

That thing looks great! 8k really isn't too bad. You could pull two of those and still be less than my Weekend Warrior weighed when loaded up.

I'm still shopping for my next one. I went in to order an Attitude on Sunday but walked out when the dealer started playing dealer games with the price (I guess having every option checked off and essentially cash in hand.... they thought they would try to wring me out for some extra...). Fast forward to today and I talked to a former Eclipse dealer, and learned why they no longer carry them. Let's just say it has raised some concerns, so I'm starting to look back into living-quarter car-haulers.

[carringb]

Originally Posted by E350

Here is my deal. My 2002 7.3L got great fuel mileage (as high as 21.96 mpg during break in period driving 45-55 on I-5) in the configuration I ordered it with the 3.55 rear differential. When it was converted to 4x4 the converter changed the differentials to 3.73 and my mpg dropped from 16-18 (maybe sometimes ~19) to 11-12 (maybe sometimes ~13). And I effectively lost my overdrive - meaning I can drive up a pretty good hill without it dropping out of O.D.

Hmmm something seems off. Are you sure they put in 3.73? That's a pretty small jump, and not near enough to cause a 5-6 drop in MPG. When I went from 3.73 to 4.56 gears I lost 1.5 MPG solo, but gained 1.5 towing. While I would like a 2nd overdrive, I'm suspicious your MPG drop may be from other factors, in which case a taller overdrive may not gain you back the MPGs you were hoping for.

The fact your van holds OD on hills suggests it is geared correctly. If it had to drop out of OD in the hills, you'd be burning more fuel depending on the terrain you're in.

[E350]

The Bible written by the 7.3L mileage god:

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/sho ... p?t=119745

MPG = RPM in the 7.3L

"Gearing does not affect road load, but reduces the engine frictional HP and accessory parasitic load at a given road speed. Engine frictional HP is the power necessary to make the engine turn without making any net power to the flywheel. It is somewhat of a misnomer – most engine bearings are plain bearings which have very low mechanical friction. Most of this HP goes to pumping air through the engine. For International and Cummins engines (and most engines in this class, I’d bet) engine frictional HP goes up proportionally with RPM between 1000 and 2000 RPM and increases with the square of RPM above 2000. Looking at engine frictional HP curves I’ve seen for the International 444 engine, my engine need 12 HP less to make itself run at 1325 RPM than at 2000 RPM. That explains the 3.0 MPG improvement I got over a 3.73 R&P.

Gearing is tough to do. This involves changing the ring-and-pinion set to a numerically lower ratio. Most guys go up in ratio to compensate for big tires but lower ratio R&P sets are rare. I have a 3.08 gear set, but I don’t think they are commercially available anymore. 3.55s can be had, though. I’d expect a 1.0 MPG improvement for a truck that had 3.73s (the most common) and somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 for a truck with 4.10s."

I am convinced that my higher rpms are inversely correlated to my lower mpgs due to gearing change.

Other things of course, conversion to 4x4, large top causing wind resistance. But I have driven on the flats slowly, and seen no significant mileage change.

Injectors could have also been slowly wearing out (or plugging up with delamination goo from fuel tank) which would result in poor atomization which could have a detrimental affect on mpg.

Only time and money for repair will tell.

I am intrigued by the V10. Does it have enough low end torque to push 3.55 or 3.08 gearing, thereby reducing rpms, and increasing mpg?

[carringb]

The V10 probably could manage with 3.55 gears (with the 4R100) or maybe a little taller with the TorqueShift. But once you start increasing horsepower requirements (4x4, high roof, bigger tires etc) than the taller gearing may be a hindrance to good fuel economy, not a benefit, as lower RPM = less HP and that could end up just putting you in a lower transmission gear.

Also, if you are running too tall gears with your 4R100 you will spend more time with the torque-converter unlocked, which is what causes early death in that transmission.

There's probably good reasons why Ford gives much higher rating for lower gears, and doesn't even offer taller gears in the vans. The pickups only got taller gears when they got the 6-speed with the deep low gears. The V10 with 3.73 gears is only rated for 15,000 GCWR. It jumps to 18,500 with 4.10 and 22,000 with 4.56 gears. Likewise going from 3.55 to 4.10 gears gains an extra 4,000 pounds with the diesels. Going with gears taller than Ford offers could have some adverse affects you may not have considered.