Heater valve bypass to fix "heated dashboard vents"?

[fddjr1]

Originally Posted by JWA

Hey again Viva---seems we both sidetracked ourselves on your hot vent issue---my apologies for being too slow on the uptake.

To suit your desires the Cold Rush and Max Air system thing might do the trick just fine. IMHO those kits are a bit of over-kill and basically redundant, that one needs to add both in order to achieve the single goal of significantly reducing air temps when in "vent" seems unnecessary. Their configuration ends up costing at least $100 more than this same thing could be done with DIY parts, all of top quality and same function

I'm about to install something similar in that I'll have full control over the coolant flow to the heater core, able to shut it off completely independently of Ford's standard control scheme. My homemade system will consist of one vacuum-actuated valve, an electric vacuum on/off control and dash-mounted switch, all incorporated into the existing system with only those parts, nothing else required (miscellaneous wiring, tubing, hose and clamps notwithstanding. )

One link include here earlier on lead me to a search results page, hoping this takes you to the same page: http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...031j7148753j19. There are several helpful and informative threads there, might give you more insight into your potential cure Viva.

At any rate your situation can be remedied by stopping the hot coolant flow to the heater core---easy enough in theory. How you achieve it, weather DIY or hiring it out or enlisting the help of a trusted friend will dictate the end cost and how soon its put into action.

JWA-I appreciate your information here on the original post, wanderings, and then backto this core shut off valve. I have a 2005 E350 that was suffering fromthe dreaded bypass valve failure and was able to fix with the rerouting of thevalve and the building of a new vacuum reservoir tank inside the cab thanks to posters like you. AC no longer cuts off going uphill or when needing power, which is glorious. I'm still having AC temperature issues and mostly deal with hotclimate as opposed to cold. I'm looking at the 12v always open solenoidvalve you linked to and wanted to confirm remaining parts to get thisfunctional. I need 2x male barb end to threaded end male adapters securedto the valve, 1x automotive DC switch for inside the cabin, and some wiring topower and ground the switch to the valve (fed through the firewall/insideengine cover). Do I use Teflon tape to seal the threads of the barbedadapter to the valve? Anything else I'm missing? A few finalquestions: Any issues with this valve you can think of in the crampedspace of the van engine compartment (ie. heat)? Any non-lighted switchyou would recommend specifically (any special current handling requirements toconsider in buying the switch)? I appreciate your time and knowledge onthis 'wonderfully' designed Ford HVAC system for vans.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by fddjr1

I'm still having AC temperature issues and mostly deal with hotclimate as opposed to cold.

Describe your A/C temperature issues for me please.

Honestly before we start adding or modifying things we'd want to know or be assured the existing factory A/C system is fully charged and operating as designed.

Its been a while since I've worked on this modification but I should have most of the information I can find for you. Feel free to PM me but we'll still update this thread in the event it might help others.

[fddjr1]

Hi again JWA. Thanks for your response. So the system appears to be charged correctly with freon after we measured the pressures this weekend. The temperature at the front vent was about 45 or 46 F while it was about 77 or 78 F outside and the van was parked. It was late afternoon and the sun was setting. I'm not sure if that vent temperature is considered 'correct' or 'acceptable' and would love your take on it.

My overall issue is fighting the summer heat here in the south west and trying to maximize the cold we can get out of the system. This is why I was asking about the parts required to do the shut off valve as I had seen a few videos reporting a drop of 8-10 F at the vent just by shutting off the hot water that is flowing into the heater core.

Please let me know your thoughts.
Regards,
Frank

[JWA]

Hey Frank

I sourced an electric vacuum solenoid valve and a normally open vacuum operated coolant valve and a switch, links here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...EGJNR9ED&psc=1

Here's photos showing where the shut off valve will be inserted:





What you'll be doing is stopping coolant from the intake crossover passage from entering the heater core. There's no detrimental effects to this so don't be concerned you'll be damaging the engine.

I'd suggest buying a replacement hose from the crossover to the heater core for this. OEM direct replacement would be great since it will already have the Quick Connect fitting installed. The alternative is to buy the pre-formed hose without QC fittings and use Dorman parts instead.

Keep in mind the OEM hose has a restrictor fitted whose function I don't know but if the factory saw fit ti install it perhaps its good to follow suit. Any replacement hose won't have that already installed so you'll transfer the one from the existing hose to the replacement.

The idea on this set-up is when the vacuum solenoid is not engaged coolant flows as it would normally. Should defrost be needed you'd have heat to the air stream which is usually necessary.

If you engage the vacuum solenoid coolant to the heater core would be stopped and theoretically reduce temps inside the evaporator case resulting in "cooler" air through the vents.

For a vacuum source I'd tap into the existing vacuum system for the ducts---naturally you'll need a fused 12VDC source for the vacuum solenoid. I'm not exactly sure how much amperage that pulls so tapping into an existing under-dash circuit would be okay as long as you don't over load the tapped circuit. Perhaps the power port or cigar lighter would work IF you don't exceed the 20 amps each is rated to carry.

So that's the quick view and parts list---I hope this helps. I'd be willing to share my phone number if you'd like to consult during your process--always glad to help if I can.

[fddjr1]

Hi JWA. Thanks for the detailed reply and pictures and also the offer to chat with me directly if need be. I think that all of this is totally helpful. I just had a few follow on points that I wanted to mention after going through the whole thread:

1) your suggested parts would be a cheaper alternative to the max cold setup where they made you buy both the vacuum actuator valve and the switch to fire the valve? Am I seeing that correctly?

2) Midway through this thread you mentioned a purely electric solenoid valve at this site: http://www.electricsolenoidvalves.co...alves-n-o.html. They are still for sale so I was wondering if you had finally ever used them in your setup? They are $60 without the barbed fittings so probably another $10 for those and would be double what your setup using the vacuum based valve but still 1/2 the cost of the max cold setup at like $120. It seems to me that this is a more elegant setup (if the valve holds up to the heat) since all you have to do is wire in a switch.

3) In your explanation of the OEM hose, I wanted to make sure I'm clear. Earlier in the thread, you mentioned to one of the posters that this hose was one piece in the OEM world but that due to the removal of the rear heater or some other aspect, the hose was split and this plastic fitting was put in the middle. Just to clarify, does the OEM hose from Ford come as one piece from the cross over to the core or is it sold in two segments with the hose coupler in your picture?

With respect to 1) above, your parts gets you a switch activated setup still associated with a vacuum valve similar to the setup on the max cold (or whatever it's called), but somewhere in the original thread, one of the posters described the color coding for the back of the control panel that allowed you to tap into the factory panel to activate the vacuum on the vent, ac, and max ac settings, which in theory would remove the need for the switch, but would force you to mess with the panel (if you're comfortable doing that).

I'm leaning towards 2) with the solenoid valve as a one part solution (plus a switch). I chatted with the vendor and they indicated that the valve's minimum running temp is 170 deg f as that is what temp the solenoid gets up to internally and they didn't see an issue with using in the car application. So assuming it's fine, I would get that valve, 2 male barb fittings, and the switch you suggested and install them in the spot you indicated in your pictures. Does that make sense?

AGAIN, many thanks for your time responding to my questions. I'm continuing the thread just to have all the info posted so others may see. And I can report back after with pictures on what I did, so future van folks can benefit from our journey!!

[JWA]

Originally Posted by fddjr1

Hi JWA. Thanks for the detailed reply and pictures and also the offer to chat with me directly if need be. I think that all of this is totally helpful. I just had a few follow on points that I wanted to mention after going through the whole thread:

1) your suggested parts would be a cheaper alternative to the max cold setup...

I'm not familiar with that set up so can't say

Originally Posted by fddjr1

2) Midway through this thread you mentioned a purely electric solenoid valve..... It seems to me that this is a more elegant setup (if the valve holds up to the heat) since all you have to do is wire in a switch.

This would be your choice but I didn't go forward with the electric valves for two reasons: 1) Wasn't sure it would hold up over time in an automotive-type setting regardless what the vendor claims. 2) Vacuum operation was my preference because the opening and closing is accomplished more slowly than the snap-open solenoid valve. Yes it does add a component which I never saw as a downside. Again personal preference, no real right or wrong way here.

Originally Posted by fddjr1

3) Just to clarify, does the OEM hose from Ford come as one piece from the cross over to the core or is it sold in two segments with the hose coupler in your picture?

I added the coupling to a hose I'd previously used with the shut off valves I show. Rather than replace the entire hose joining them together seemed like a good idea. Plus I wasn't sure if I'd re-install a valve in the place so the coupling left that option open.

The OEM or aftermarket replacement hose would come in one continuous part.

Originally Posted by fddjr1

With respect to 1) above, your parts gets you a switch activated setup still associated with a vacuum valve similar to the setup on the max cold (or whatever it's called), but somewhere in the original thread, one of the posters described the color coding for the back of the control panel that allowed you to tap into the factory panel to activate the vacuum on the vent, ac, and max ac settings, which in theory would remove the need for the switch, but would force you to mess with the panel (if you're comfortable doing that).

My method gives full and independent control over the shut-off function regardless where the Function Control Switch is set. I like that scheme but again this might just be personal preference.

Originally Posted by fddjr1

I'm leaning towards 2) with the solenoid valve as a one part solution (plus a switch).

Originally Posted by fddjr1

AGAIN, many thanks for your time responding to my questions. I'm continuing the thread just to have all the info posted so others may see. And I can report back after with pictures on what I did, so future van folks can benefit from our journey!!

Glad to help any way I can. Once you have your solution up and working please post back with your choices and how well its working.

[coloradoup]

JWA, is there any reason why your latest parts list wouldn't work on my 2001 E 350 7.3 van? I have the rear heat and AC on my van. Not sure where to hook into the vacuum line.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by coloradoup

JWA, is there any reason why your latest parts list wouldn't work on my 2001 E 350 7.3 van? I have the rear heat and AC on my van. Not sure where to hook into the vacuum line.

If you're referring to the parts I list in post #104 then no there's not a single reason they'd not work in your year van. I dare say they'd work in any E-Series from at least 1997 until end of life in 2013. I'm not familiar with the 2014 and later cutaway cab/chassis heating systems I'm sure those would work there too.

I don't know where the diesel vans obtain their vacuum signal but easiest place to find and tap into that source is under the inspection place located middle of the dash board, looking like this:



I'll recommend you view this post I created over on FTE in the Van's tech folder----should be helpful in gaining a better idea of the stock HVAC system and its operation as well as various components. Here's a link: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-controls.html

Once you've viewed that feel free to ask any question you have remaining how to utilize my info and suggested parts in your own van.

[coloradoup]

JWA,

Yes that was what I was referring to. Thanks for the response and I will check out your link.

[Adventure Driven]

where is this port located that I can get vacuum from ?

Originally Posted by Scalf77

The Cold Rush is just an electric vacuum on/off control and dash-mounted switch, hook it to a always on Vacuum source and you now have control with a switch. The Mac AC Assist is the vacuum controlled heater core shutoff valve, you can use the Max AC assist by itself, to turn off the flow to the heater core by hooking to Port 1 (White, Recirculating air duct door) , this has vacuum when the switch is in the MAX A/C and Off positions. Adding the Cold Rush lets you instead control it with a switch.

Looking at diagrams for the Van Function Selector Switch (2004, V10) is appears to me that I could hook the MAX AC to Port 4 (Blue, Floor Panel) This has Vacuum in the Max AC, Norm AC, and Vent positions. The heater core would still be active when the switch was Off, Floor, Mix and Defrost .

I believe trucks use Port 6 and not Port 4, this has vacuum when in the extra switch setting Floor/Panel, that the van does not have. It would be very probable that you would want the heater core working in this position so that does not give you an option other then Max A/C position, or by adding the vacuum control switch "Cold Rush"

-greg