Performance enhancements 6.0 turbo

[Greggd]

A quick note to anyone thinking of of Chipping their Diesel engines . I spent time with an engineer from Bank's today in order to find a means of increasing the power on my one month old EB50 and was told that doing so would risk engine failure of great consequence . This is the reason that Bank's has refused to enter into this segment of the market . His only reluctant suggestion was the possibility of their building a Cat Back Exhaust for our vehicle's . while conversing with him a couple of other Bank's people volunteered information about everything from cooked electrical failures to burning holes in Piston's . This all revolves around the tremendous heat build up in these engine's as their is no room for the necessary Inner Cooler and the overall absence of cooler air flow into the compartment . I am a little disappointed as this new van needs all the help it can for towing my 2400 Bay Ranger and my 320 Whaler Outrage over the most modest of grades .
Greggde

[mmocken]

Greggde,

As a person with firsthand experience...the Banks guy is right. If you read Ford's own TSB 03-6-8, the engine is subject to several issues that cause overheat and resultant problems(and that is stock!). If they catch you chipping, they will not cover warranty.

The 6.0L is too small compare to new 6.4L PS, 6.6L Dmax and 6.7L Cummins. All 4 engines have 330/350 HP, yet the 6.0L is the smallest.

Replacing the 7.3 with a 6.0 was a mistake. The 7.3L was a heavy duty engine and 'chipping' it to 300HP (from 235) was OK. The 6.0L was already 330HP and boosting to 490HP is ridiculous...even the lower settings of 400HP should be avoided.

There is no replacement for displacement. Get a 6.4 or 6.6 before chipping a 6.0L. Unfortunately, the Cummins 6.7L is not in the sprinter...I'd love to see them try to fit one!

[BroncoHauler]

General comments;

The 6.0L has an intercooler in both the F and E series. The E series 6.0L is detuned however (possibly including a smaller intercooler).

Ford needed to replace the 7.3L due to emissions considerations. Same reason they're getting rid of the 6.0L in favor of the 6.4L.

Because of reliability issues/concerns, Ford is VERY aware of performance enhancements, and may use them as a scapegoat for denying warranty claims. For the record, they have to prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure (believe it's the Magnusson-Moss act), but in reality, Ford has deeper pockets and more lawyers than any of us do, so it would be a major uphill legal battle.

I do believe the challenge in getting rid of engine compartment heat will shorten the life of everything under the hood. I'm still contemplating some sort of louvers to remove heat.

I have a Banks exhaust on my SMB that the previous owner talked Banks into making and installing. The previous owner lives nears Mr. Banks' home in the Sierra foothills.

A significant number of people have increased the power of thier 6.0L's safely and succesfully. I think a lot of the longevity comes from what's between the ears of the driver and how heavy the right foot is. Conversly, a significant number of people have installed significant power increases of their engines and many have had problems.

I think the SMB with 6.0L tows loads uphill fairly well. I think the '02 F250 with 7.3L that I used to own did a better job, but not that much better. Without a doubt, the extra weight from the conversion does not help.


Herb

[Greggd]

Marty and Herb ,
Thank you for your information as it will be adhered to . Banks is going to get back to me as they have set seven of my previous vehicle's with Bazooka Proof results on all of these pickups . I to live a very short distance from Bank's and have grown to trust their thinking . They are going to see if an Exhaust/Cat Back can be configured for my new 6.0 . I may give up on trying to tow the Outrage with the Van and use one of my Son's trucks , it pulls the 2400 Bay Ranger Ok on moderate inclined roads but need's more grunt on Grapevine type incline's . Thank you both again for your confirmation's .
Greggde

[BroncoHauler]

Greggde,

Ther's at least one forum member (JoeyNick) who uses a tuner on his SMB. He uses an SCT tuner, which is what I would also use if I didn't have to worry about voiding my warranty. You may want to look up his posts and/or shoot him a PM if you have questions.


Herb

[mmocken]

Greetings Herb,

Likely a 4 valve 7.3L could have passed Oct 2002 emissions and cleared 400HP with a larger EGR. All diesel manufacturer(san CAT using ACERT technology) reengineered existing engines with significantly larger EGR's.

The 7.3L was large and heavy compared to the Duramax. So a small and lighter V8 was demanded by FMC. A chipped 7.3(300hp) still had less HP than a stock 6.6 Dmax(305)

As for towing, low RPM torque rules. A 6.0L gets HP mostly from RPM not low RPM torque.

Either way you look at it. These are all very good engines. The 6.0L had a lot of problems that were fixed. Please don't chip it.

[Greggd]

Herb and Marty ,
Thanks again for the worth while advice and information , I have read the previous post's about the Live Wire technology and would not want to violate the now ingrained trust for the Boy's at Bank's Engineering . I will from here on out confine my desire for Chip's to the Salsa dipping variety .
Thanks again Guy's
Greggde

[JoeyNick]

It's true, I "chipped" my van.

I went through all the contemplation of the voided warranty issues and read tons of posts from unhappy 6.0 owners, mostly from truck owners and especially on The Diesel Stop forum.

What I was seeking was primarily an increase in MPG, and I got it. It's about two MPG better than stock with the setting I'm using (Tow.) I'm not towing heavy loads (more heat) or racing the van (again, more heat.) Just road trips, which are mostly highway (I put 25,000 miles on the van in the first year) and at reasonable speeds. I get my best MPG at 69 MPH, right around 2000 RPM and that's where I run most of the time. And I confess to having a rather light foot.

I run an X-Monitor with a pyrometer and had that installed over 6 months before chipping the van, so I would know what temperatures were "normal" in the exhaust. With the chip, I'm still in the same place.

I do admit to running the "Street" Tune for about 2 tankfuls, after having the Tow Tune for several months. The power was INCREDIBLE! It made me want to stomp on the gas. And I did that a number of times. I think it ran about 16 seconds at 91 MPH in the quarter mile. Holy smokes! This is in a 9,000 pound van with a 3.55 open rear. Tires chirped a hair on take off.

Fuel mileage was around 12 MPG for those tanks and the pyrometer was reading higher, much faster. Since I'm not looking to abuse my very expensive van, the Tow Tune is what I use.

I also maintain it very well, synthetic Mobil 1 oil everywhere and it gets changed at 5,000 mile intervals. If Banks comes out with a turbo back exhaust, I'll likely add that too, to get the engine running cooler. Heat is the enemy in turbo engines.

There was around 30,000 miles on the van when I chipped it and I'm now over 50,000 miles. I've had zero mechanical problems with my van.

To each his own. If you know the potential consequences of your actions, it's your decision if the trade off is worth it.

Take care!

[kzemach]

Humor me here; I really know nothing about these systems and do enjoy reading all your posts.

I met a guy with a diesel SMB and he had upgraded his exhaust and was raving about the performance increase. If I recall correctly, he stated "get a 3.5" downtube and 4" exhaust; it'll greatly increase your power in a wicked way. Do this BEFORE you think of chipping." He also noted that this shouldn't have any adverse effects on engine/turbo temps like chipping can.

I've been following JoeyNick's quest for higher MPG religiously, and am assuming that this exhaust mod should also do the same for MPG, yes?

What I don't understand is the following: if the increased exhaust system size increases power, but since it's larger should do it without temp increases for the engine, why wouldn't Ford do that as stock?

[BroncoHauler]

Typically the intake and exhaust systems are fairly well balanced, so generally changing one without the other will not have a huge effect. The intake is generally the more difficult thing to change, especially on a van. There are plenty of filters out there that claim increased air flow, but personally I think many do it at the expense of filtration. An exhaust-only mod should provide a modest power increase, reduce exhaust temps, and increase the noise inside and out. I think it is a good second step to the quest for power. The first should be EGT and trans temp gauges, especially if towing.

You should ask the guy is his aftermarket exhaust system deleted the cat and the diesel particulate filter. That would help even more, but is likely against Federal law.


Herb