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Old 06-29-2011, 09:21 PM   #11
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

Wow Pat. Do you think the dealer is taking you for a ride? I mean I was doing what you shouldn't to my engine and have yet to have any trouble with the turbo. I will admit that Ford dealerships are the last place to have work done but when it's under warrantee you're kinda stuck. I wonder what would happen if you took it to another shop who addresses 6.0 problems.

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Old 06-29-2011, 09:51 PM   #12
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

Conversely, there are quite a few people with the 7.3L who have replaced their factory turbos with aftermarket ball bearing turbos. Then there are the Dodge Cummins owners who are transitioning from the trucks with the newer 6.7L diesel, back to the older 5.9L diesel.

I do think how the vehicle gets used does have a lot to do with the reliability. Unfortunately, that "association" was not known until many people decided on the PSD though it didn't match the preferred vehicle usage pattern.


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Old 06-29-2011, 09:52 PM   #13
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveb
Wow Pat. Do you think the dealer is taking you for a ride?
I was very satisfied with my dealer in terms of the repairs. All they can do is follow Fords TSB's and perform the work based on troubleshooting the codes and other indications. It is not up to them to solve a poor component design. With most other conditions being equal; Why does one turbo (mine) regularly have failure issues when another (hopefully yours) does not? I don't know but I strongly believe that the 6.0 is much more risky than most for service problems. My Ford service adviser actually told me when I told him it was probably a turbo issue for the Check Engine Light that I probably didn't didn't drive it hard enough. I don't remember that as being a prerequisite in the manual to getting an acceptable service life.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:54 PM   #14
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatO
All they can do is follow Fords TSB's and perform the work based on troubleshooting the codes and other indications.
If they do the work.

Mine was in and in again, every time I drove for more than 45 minutes, back with the check engine light. It wasn't until an out of state dealership finally replaced the turbo that everything improved. Was the first dealer getting the replace turbo and considering it a loss, so just resetting the CEL? We'll never know. The second dealership made it clear they'd really rather not have the work, but being several days from home I talked them into it.

Then, years later, here in Denver I went to a dealer for the bed plate leak. They hemmed and hawed and tried to service charge me for the 4x4 and the bumpers and everything else. Through SMBs dealer contact (can't think of his name... ) I got them to admit they would get paid by Ford to deal with all that aftermarket stuff, ergo they really, really didn't need to also charge me.

So everything is golden, they're pulling the engine, getting extra bucks from Ford and my leak is getting fixed, right? Only- somebody says, hey while it's OUT of the VAN why don't you X, Y, and Z? So I call up the dealership- "While the engine is out, I want to..."

Guess what? Through my insistence, I discovered they never took the engine out. Whatever leak they fixed was not the bed plate, and if they charged Ford what they were trying to charge me for "additional equipment", Ford got ripped off.

So... I don't trust dealerships to diagnose, do, or do correctly the work they claim for one minute.

Not to say you should give yours an nth chance, I can totally see where you won't ever trust a 6L... funny my F250 7.3L has had several more problems for similar miles than the 6.0L by a long shot (including currently spotting my driveway with something currently ) yet, I still feel like it's a more reliable engine. Go figure.

Keep us up to date on the lemon law procedure, I know it's been done with an SMB before, but don't really know how it works...
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:31 AM   #15
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

I would be disinclined to purchase another 6.0L (or Ford for that matter). The engine definitely had some design issues still around in 2005 (same year as ours), and the service we received under warranty from various Ford dealers was far from what I would expect (when things go wrong, chances are you are not near your preferred reputable shop).

Issues I blame on Ford:
We had a stuck valve from the factory, so the engine was pulled and the head replaced before we even got delivery. This lead to many follow on issues as reconnecting everything is apparently a tough job.

High Pressure Oil Pump STC failure left us instantly dead on a remote dirt road, fortunately near my parents and could hike up a hill to get a phone call out. Took a week to fix with the newer part.

MAF/IAT sensor failure twice, makes starting hard, though it seems to run well enough without it working.

EGR design coking up the intake and EGR valve. Concern with EGR coolant leakage leading to serious problems later (hydro-lock, blown head gaskets).

Issues I blame on Dealer work:
When the motor was put back in a number of wires and hoses were not put back in the proper place, leading to chafing, and noises. Eventually I did a thorough examination with the manual and routing diagrams to get everything back.

When the motor was put back in the left engine mount bolts were not torqued down, allowing the engine to move, resulting in strange noises and some broken bolts. One dealer refused to resolve this as "not something we did", so I had to deal with it myself. If a shop is unwilling to work on something that another shop did, what is the point of the dealer network in the first place?

The above mentioned HPOP STC fitting was supposedly replaced with the improved new version by one shop, yet it failed catastrophically just 2 months later and was revealed to be the original part, not the new one they claimed to have put in and charged us for.

The turbo is mounted with 3 bolts, yet twice after service I found that it was only mounted by 2, the 3rd (in a hard to reach place) had fallen into the engine valley and they hadn't bothered to retrieve or replace it.

One shop, after a week, just told us to retrieve our van as no-one was willing to work on it, even under warranty.



We have not had any turbo issues, likely from driving for long periods when we do, and when parked it has usually been in very dry climates.

We do have an oil leak that is likely from the rear-main-seal or bed-plate, however there is no way I am having a shop pull the engine again for such a minor drip, and the idea of doing it myself is not appealing.


Essentially, the design is complicated and difficult to work on. Ford would not pay for preventative fixes, so either it was either out of pocket (and then it seems some shops just charge for the work w/o actually doing it), or you have to have a failure. When at a shop, no one wanted to work on it because of complexity, and they likely do a sloppy job because of this.

Our solution is to have the service manuals, a diagnostic scanner, and carry enough tools and spare parts/sensors to recover in the field from any likely failure, as researched from internet reports of failures, but this is not practical for many.

I think the engine can be made reasonably reliable, and we are probably there by now, but the pain of getting there was pretty significant, and has left a pretty sour taste with regard to Ford and their dealer network.

-e
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:46 AM   #16
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

FWIW,

I've had my van at two different Ford dealers (one for turbo and one for IPR - both warranty work), and two non-ford shops (once for brakes & coolant flush, once for oil cooler & EGR cooler). None of them blinked an eye at working on a 4x4 SMB, and I had no post-work quality issues with any of them either.


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Old 06-30-2011, 10:48 AM   #17
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by etbadger
One shop, after a week, just told us to retrieve our van as no-one was willing to work on it, even under warranty.
At least they were forthright?
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:58 PM   #18
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

"most of the warranty fixes can be done without pulling the engine"
"just put aftermarket temp gages on it and let off the accelerator when temp gets high"
"turbo carbons up but you only have to disassemble and clean every 100,000 miles"

Is it just me, or do others wonder why anybody would want to suffer these issues when a gas engine simply works?
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Old 06-30-2011, 05:38 PM   #19
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoHauler
FWIW,

I've had my van at two different Ford dealers (one for turbo and one for IPR - both warranty work), and two non-ford shops (once for brakes & coolant flush, once for oil cooler & EGR cooler). None of them blinked an eye at working on a 4x4 SMB, and I had no post-work quality issues with any of them either.


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post-work quality issues - this was somewhat suspect for me: http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/vie...hp?f=39&t=6619 Any time something is taken apart you are increasing your risk to have something go wrong.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:00 PM   #20
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Re: Reliability of 2005 6.0 Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by etbadger

Issues I blame on Dealer work:


One shop, after a week, just told us to retrieve our van as no-one was willing to work on it, even under warranty. -e

WOW Eric, And all this time I thought my dealer was bad. Your post makes them look good. But I still won't take my van back to them, they just can't be trusted.
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