Sourcing custom leafsprings is hard

[brp]

Originally Posted by Mr.Anderson

I was also looking at the Agile Offroad RIP kit, but it seems like that kit is designed to improve the OEM stock leaf springs, I guess if I'm already going to be replacing the leaf springs I can just do the front part of the RIP kit and not worry about the RIP add-a-leaf portion of the kit right?

My rear springs were not compatible with Agile's RIP add a leaf. I bought the kit from them without the add a leafs and was given a discount on the kit.

It did not result in any issues or problems. I now have one of the two rear springs replaced with a non-custom spring, I hope to get the other one done this week.

[arctictraveller]

Originally Posted by Mr.Anderson

@arcticTraveler - you have the RIP kit as well, but you still replaced the rear leafs with custom springs from Alcansprings - is that correct? did you keep any of the stuff from the RIP kit on the rear or just use their front suspension upgrade? !

I've got an Advanced conversion,not Quigley (well, actually I have both, but that's another story) so I've got leaf springs in the front. When Ramsey was first offering the RIP kit, it was based around coil springs, but he still helped me with my leaf set-up. He cycled the suspension and discovered that my original shocks were restricting the available amount of droop. We added his (longer) Fox shocks front and rear, re-arched the front springs, and added a leaf in the rear. The new shocks were a huge improvement in the ride, while the re-arched springs lifted the front about an inch and a half, so I ended up with a whopping 2.5 inches of bump travel. Prior to that, it hit the bump stops over small pebbles. The add a leaf in the rear lifted it a little, but mainly leveled the van due to the stock springs being a bit sagged. With the RIP kit coil springs in front, I'm pretty sure you will see a very noticeable improvement in the ride.

Over time, the fronts began to sag again, and the rear's did too, enough that they were formed around the lift block. I wanted to get rid of the block, (to reduce axle wrap) so all new springs were the answer. In addition, the new springs are far more progressive, with more, thinner leaves, and plastic slider pads between each leaf, resulting in a better ride, and a bit more lift. The new fronts ended up being a bit taller than I'd hoped, but I've only put on about 1500 miles so far, so I'm hoping it will settle a bit more. Meanwhile, I added a one inch spacer in the rear to level it out a bit. So, I'd recommend you do John's springs and shocks in the front, and rear shocks. As for rear springs, Alcan builds a pack somewhat comparable to Dever's (more leaves, more progressive) for about half the price and 1/3 the wait. If I'm not mistaken, John's springs, (and WeldTech's too) have fewer, thicker leaves, making them a little less progressive. Interestingly, both Agile and WeldTech's springs are built by the same guy. Let us know what you decide.

[Mr.Anderson]

Thanks for the info.



It sounds like going with a custom rear leaf spring is a good way to go. Looking at the price of going with new "stock" springs and the RIP add-a-leaf kit I'm still facing $700 to $800 versus custom springs through Alcan which would be around $850


Couple questions though, as I'm new to suspension stuff and just starting to get into the 4x4 off-road scene:



what is droop?



Why is it better to have the springs give you the lift as opposed to the block / why do you want to get rid of the block?


What is axle wrap?





What makes a leaf spring more progressive? Are more leafs which are thinner better than fewer leafs that are thicker?

[Orv]

Originally Posted by Mr.Anderson

What is axle wrap?

When you step on the accelerator and the wheels try to push the van forward, the torque reaction causes the axle to try to twist in the other direction. Leaf springs will deform under that torque and let the axle twist. Lift blocks make it worse because the axle now has a longer lever to apply torque to the spring.

This video illustrates it fairly well -- notice how the lift block tilts and the differential tilts upwards, changing the U-joint angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54_6GaYJvWI

[arctictraveller]

Originally Posted by Mr.Anderson

Thanks for the info.
what is droop?

Why is it better to have the springs give you the lift as opposed to the block / why do you want to get rid of the block?

What is axle wrap?

What makes a leaf spring more progressive? Are more leafs which are thinner better than fewer leafs that are thicker?

Droop is the amount your axle can hang down when it's unloaded. If you jack it up by the frame, the axle will hang by the springs, that's your total amount of droop. The more you have, the longer the tire will stay in contact with the ground when one side rolls over terrain that is lower than the other side. Bottom line, more traction in off camber situations.

Spring rate is the amount of resistance or force the spring provides as it's compressed. A spring with one rate will be very stiff through out it's total travel distance resulting in a very rough ride over even small bumps. A progressive spring starts out much softer with small amounts of travel, and as it compresses further, it will get progressively stiffer until it reaches maximum spring rate towards the end of upward travel. More and thinner leaves are softer in the beginning and ramp up the rate progressively but cost more to make.

Axle wrap causes the tires to jump up and down in low traction situations like sand. When the tires turn, they attempt to rotate the entire differential in a circle that's limited by the springs holding it in place. When you add a block between the axle and the spring, it provides the axle with more leverage to twist the spring. Eliminating the block reduces the leverage and reduces the traction loss when the tires spin.

[Zappo]

weldtec/Jeremy SoCal El Cajon sells leaf spring set (progressive)for about $1,200.00 you get your van weighed at a truck scale front/back/total and you can tell him if you want your van a little higher in rear(if you tow),level,or how a lot of truck owners like it a little lower.With this set up you remove the blocks.he can also get custom valved Fox 2.0 shocks for your needs.im goin off memory but you can verify.i actually just bought one of his custom steering stabilizer setups for $275 fox 2.0 and his in house bracket/hardware and it will be on my 2009 camper van 2wd by this weekend.

[Zappo]

Couple more pics

[Zappo]

Just pulled up a pic of his leaf springs,no affiliation with him just a customer,Not sure if I’m allowed to post this let me know and I’ll delete,thx

[Mr.Anderson]

Awesome, thanks for the information guys. I decided to go with the RIP upfrade on the front side of the suspension and am putting in an order with alcan for some custom rear leaf springs

[Mr.Anderson]

Quick question for those who have done the RIP kit - since I'm going with a custom rear leaf spring through Alcans springs and the Agile offroad RIP kit on the front, does anyone know how much lift there is if any from the RIP front suspension - I'm guessing that I will need to make sure I get a leveling spacer for that same height on the leaf springs right?