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Old 08-12-2015, 04:49 PM   #1
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Tis folly to be wise?

A couple months ago I had new injectors installed in my '06 6.0. I also installed an AirDog II lift pump/conditioner and regulated return system from Sinister Diesel. The regulator had a mechanical fuel pressure gauge which I set to 70psi. The van ran great, and I felt good about it. Then I replaced the pressure gauge with an electronic sender that would read on my Edge CTS2 in real time while drove. At idle fuel pressure was around 70psi. It would drop to high 50's/low 60's under acceleration and into the 30's under heavy load. My calm was shattered.

I figured it had to be either the regulator or the Airdog pump that wasn't keeping up with the engine. I clamped off the return hose from the regulator, there was no change so I decided the Airdog was at fault. Sure enough, the internet is full of Airdog issues involving low fuel pressure. AirDog even had a rash of motor failures. Had to be it. Spent much time with AirDog on the phone running the tests they asked me to run--I wouldn't want to be paying someone else $100/hour to do all this. They told me I had the revised pump motor and that I had fuel pick-up issues. I was not happy.

$1500 to protect $4000 worth of injectors seemed like a good idea, but I got screwed instead. I pulled the AirDog and reinstalled the stock lift pump. This made the problem worse with fuel pressure dipping into the teens(!) under hard acceleration. They were right, I had fuel pickup issues. I dropped the fuel tank to inspect. It was spotless inside and the pickup screen was clean. None of the fuel lines were kinked, but they were pulled pretty tight which I decided happened when SMB West installed the fuel tank. I don't know if this was causing my pickup problems, or if the small fuel lines were, but I decided to go with a Fass fuel pickup kit. http://www.fassride.com/detail/accessor ... be-kit.php

It has a much larger pickup tube compared to the stock unit:


It also allowed me to use the 1/2" fuel line included with the AirDog II kit. Once the tank was out, the Fass suction tube kit was pretty easy to install:


I also extended the pickup tube for the Espar stuff to within 1/8" of the bottom of the tank hopefully fixing the ongoing pickup problems with that too. SMB had the Espar pickup tube ending well above 1/4 tank. Once it sucks air, you're screwed.

My fuel pickup/low pressure problem is now fixed. I set the fuel pressure to 67psi and it now barely moves under acceleration--I've yet to see below 65psi! As Edd China would say: "Result".

I don't think it's a stretch to say any PSD van has the same pickup issues I had. Certainly any with the (unbaffled) Transfer Flow tank will have the problem. I thought I was golden until I looked hard enough.

Z
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Old 08-12-2015, 05:52 PM   #2
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

So, tis not folly but tis financially taxing? Glad you figured it out. My 460 has fuel pressure issues too. I wish I could figure out why.

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Old 08-13-2015, 09:33 PM   #3
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

I must have buried the lead, or it was washed away by a Yellow River, but here it is again:


There's a good chance your 4x4 6.0 SMB is suffering fuel starvation due to small pick-up and fuel lines shortening injector life!

Z
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:38 PM   #4
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

Did you already do the modification to the vent tube for the TF "last 8 gals" fuel fill issue? I seem to recall you had done that ?????

Great effort on what you did getting to the bottom of the fuel pressure problem. Wonder if the 7.3's have the same issues??

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Old 08-14-2015, 10:15 AM   #5
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

Interesting. I'm curious if anyone knows what the fuel pickup is in the 46 gal. transferflow tank that SMB installs? I've now killed 3 injectors in the last 10,000 miles.

60 to 65 psi with the blue spring upgrade so it appears fuel pressure is sufficient but always worrying about something on the 6.0.
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:28 AM   #6
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeH
60 to 65 psi with the blue spring upgrade
Is that while driving or at idle? Mine showed 70psi at idle until load/acceleration dropped it way down.

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Old 08-14-2015, 02:27 PM   #7
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeH
60 to 65 psi with the blue spring upgrade
Is that while driving or at idle? Mine showed 70psi at idle until load/acceleration dropped it way down.

Z
65psi at idle and it might drop to 60 WOT. That was after the blue spring upgrade. Before that I was in the mid 40s. My understanding is that's ok but dropping below 40 psi is no bueno for injector happiness.
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Old 08-14-2015, 10:51 PM   #8
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

Zeta.

Excellent write up. I too have this issue. Interestingly I set psi to 55 and when I accelerated it would drop to high 40's. Then I reset this to 70 psi and when I mash on the acceleration again it dropped down to upper 40's.

I dropped the tank once when I installed the airdog. Also installed a one way valve on my espar and webasto stove. This resolved air issues on the stove when not in use. I think I need to drop the intakes for the espar and webasto to the floor instead of almost to the floor.

This gives me an excuse to go into there one last time. Sadly when I add the additive to the fuel sometimes the foil or cardboard from inner cap falls in there are likely a few floating in there now

What is the link to the improved fuel tank vent so we can actually fill to the top of the tank? May as well address is too.

I tried to adjust my fuel gauge float because the PCM would think the tank is on empty and go into limp mode yet I would have 8 gallons left in the tank. This worked until the metal memory of the float returned and it became people slightly worse.

Some days this makes me appreciate my Toyota.
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Old 08-15-2015, 07:43 PM   #9
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

Tom, you always cost me money but save bucks in the end. I'll look into it. One thing that's funny is I've never had the Espar issues you've had. Not saying I'm not having FP issues but I do plan to add a gauge for that in the near future. Might as well look into the fuel line crap.
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Old 08-15-2015, 10:11 PM   #10
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Re: Tis folly to be wise?

The 6.0 vans seem to go through injectors; I had three bad ones despite trying to do everything right--blue spring, additives, lotsa filter changes. Many others have had bad injectors too. I think it's low fuel pressure caused by a lack of volume under load. Or maybe it's just a horrible design that makes complicated, delicate injectors critical for performance

That said, I'm thrilled how my van runs: super responsive, great torque, jumps to life when started hot or cold. I also like seeing the fuel pressure nice and constant so maybe it will last.

JoeH doesn't seem to have an issue, but Ketcham does. I don't know what the difference could be. I will be interested in Daveb's experience. One could monitor pressure at the fuel bowl with something like this: http://sinisterdiesel.com/i-15883661-si ... -6-0l.html

Would be cheaper and easier than rigging up a regulated return.

Z
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