Heat for a Sprinter

[windguy]

excellent pics Greg and very cool dogs. Thanks for sharing
once you get your Sprinter you can post those on the Show us Your Paws thread I started
good luck with your build. keep us posted on your design efforts.

[docd]

I picked up my new Sprinter in Austin this September. Very happy with the choice. The airtronic heater is another issue. I believe that it is a D2. The heater works well but I believe that the installation by SM does not allow adequate airflow and it overheats after 5-10 minutes. The install manual per Espar requires only a 1 inch space for the air inlet, which is about what I have, but I believe that it is inadequate. Additionally any 90 degree turns in the duct work affect airflow.
I am working with SM to try a different configuration to solve both problems.
IMO when the airflow problem is solved it will very adequately heat the van.
I worked with Paul at SMB Austin and designed the van for winter camping. There is added insulation in the walls and the water lines are all interior. The Sprinter has large windows but heat loss seems acceptable with the shades and front window thermal shade when camping.
We haven't had a major snow yet in Colorado so I can't report how the M/S tires handle.
Living in Colorado, the solar panels work very well and shore power is not an absolute necessity.
Hope this helps. docd

[daveb]

Greg, I’ve been down to 8* with a D-4 Airtronic. My PH top was up and I had no extra insulation around the top. I was sleeping up top with a 40* bag and the inside of my van was comfortable. Greg from Lubrication Specialists who does repairs on Espar thinks the D-4 (which is what I have I believe) is overkill but I don’t think the D-2 would cut it especially a pop top Sprinter. He suggests to use a remote thermostat that cycles the heater on and off in the high mode to keep carbon buildup down. So far the only problems I’ve had is replacing the glow plug which is supposed to done on a regular basis I believe. I just use mine as how SMB instructed; Fire it up on high the run it where I need it throughout the night. I do run it on high before shutdown for 15 min with the doors or windows wide open but whether or not that helps, I really don’t know. You’re supposed to run them once a month. There are some good posts on the site about problems with Espar products…try a search for them.

The problems I’ve had is with the Hydronic. It got packed with mud. I don’t like that it’s mounted just rear of the driver front tire. With all the off road 4x4ing I do it needs some kind of plate to keep crap off it. SMB-W will not mount the engine lines inside the cab due to RVIA qualification unless things have changed.

So:
D-2 or D-4 depends on where you plan to go, how large the rig is, pop top or solid top and how well your van is insulated.

Mount the cab heater in a place easy to do regular maintenance.

Prepare to hear the fuel pump clicking. Mine does not bother me but YMMV.

I smell diesel with both at times depending which way the wind blows but usually on shutdown and startup.

You have to keep the intake and exhaust ports clear.

The Hydronic sounds like a jet engine without the muffler but expect a bit of noise from both.

Don’t expect to drive with either of them running.

The most effective way to heat the engine is by adding the extra circulating pump, just expect it to pull about 3-4 amps. I don’t know about the Sprinter engines on how difficult they are to warm.

The units shut down when the tank reaches ¼. Each fuel tank might be different and you’ll need to discuss this with SMB if that’s who is doing your build.

The timers are a nice option to think about.

At times the Hydronic shuts down after startup but it usually restarts itself within about 5 min. It takes a couple of min after full startup to get hot water.

One of the archive posts discusses a new air filter for the Airtronic.

Dave.

[springer]

Originally Posted by docd

I picked up my new Sprinter in Austin this September. Very happy with the choice. The airtronic heater is another issue. I believe that it is a D2. The heater works well but I believe that the installation by SM does not allow adequate airflow and it overheats after 5-10 minutes. The install manual per Espar requires only a 1 inch space for the air inlet, which is about what I have, but I believe that it is inadequate. Additionally any 90 degree turns in the duct work affect airflow.
I am working with SM to try a different configuration to solve both problems.
IMO when the airflow problem is solved it will very adequately heat the van.
I worked with Paul at SMB Austin and designed the van for winter camping. There is added insulation in the walls and the water lines are all interior. The Sprinter has large windows but heat loss seems acceptable with the shades and front window thermal shade when camping.
We haven't had a major snow yet in Colorado so I can't report how the M/S tires handle.
Living in Colorado, the solar panels work very well and shore power is not an absolute necessity.
Hope this helps. docd

Actually, it helps. Everything helps!

I'm beginning to wonder if I should be doing the insulating and floor, send to the builder for roughing in the cabinetry, and then doing the system work myself to make sure its done the way I want. After that back to the builder to finish off the interior.

I've heard that SMB won't install a flat plate inside. That's not an option as I need cold weather functionality.

Thanks,

Greg

[springer]

Originally Posted by daveb

Greg, I’ve been down to 8* with a D-4 Airtronic. My PH top was up and I had no extra insulation around the top. I was sleeping up top with a 40* bag and the inside of my van was comfortable. Greg from Lubrication Specialists who does repairs on Espar thinks the D-4 (which is what I have I believe) is overkill but I don’t think the D-2 would cut it especially a pop top Sprinter. He suggests to use a remote thermostat that cycles the heater on and off in the high mode to keep carbon buildup down. So far the only problems I’ve had is replacing the glow plug which is supposed to done on a regular basis I believe. I just use mine as how SMB instructed; Fire it up on high the run it where I need it throughout the night. I do run it on high before shutdown for 15 min with the doors or windows wide open but whether or not that helps, I really don’t know. You’re supposed to run them once a month. There are some good posts on the site about problems with Espar products…try a search for them.

The problems I’ve had is with the Hydronic. It got packed with mud. I don’t like that it’s mounted just rear of the driver front tire. With all the off road 4x4ing I do it needs some kind of plate to keep crap off it. SMB-W will not mount the engine lines inside the cab due to RVIA qualification unless things have changed.

So:
D-2 or D-4 depends on where you plan to go, how large the rig is, pop top or solid top and how well your van is insulated.

Mount the cab heater in a place easy to do regular maintenance.

Prepare to hear the fuel pump clicking. Mine does not bother me but YMMV.

I smell diesel with both at times depending which way the wind blows but usually on shutdown and startup.

You have to keep the intake and exhaust ports clear.

The Hydronic sounds like a jet engine without the muffler but expect a bit of noise from both.

Don’t expect to drive with either of them running.

The most effective way to heat the engine is by adding the extra circulating pump, just expect it to pull about 3-4 amps. I don’t know about the Sprinter engines on how difficult they are to warm.

The units shut down when the tank reaches ¼. Each fuel tank might be different and you’ll need to discuss this with SMB if that’s who is doing your build.

The timers are a nice option to think about.

At times the Hydronic shuts down after startup but it usually restarts itself within about 5 min. It takes a couple of min after full startup to get hot water.

One of the archive posts discusses a new air filter for the Airtronic.

Dave.

The Hydronic is a factory install from Mercedes. The coolant circulation will be part of that install.

The D2 vs D4 thing is something I need to work through. I would like the larger unit, but people that know these units all use the term "overkill" and say the D2 is what should be installed.

I'm not too keen on running on the high setting. I was thinking that the low noise of lower settings would be nice, especially overnight. Opening up the unit once in a while shouldn't be a problem, but high or off..... I guess I ger to clen it up once in a while.

Thanks for the reply,

Greg

[billwilson]

Cost and size difference on D2 vs D4??


now i am confused
Hydronic vs Airtronic

a quik look at mr. google leads me to beleive
the Hydronic requires fluid moving around

however it appears the H units and A units spit out the same
H4/D4
@ 13,000 btu
9 lbs

H2/D2
@7,500 btu
6 lbs

if ya could find a reason to run fluid lines that were solid
i would lean toward that, but the output appears the same

if a plug and play unit produces the same amt of hot air
why install the same unit that requires fluid exchange?

i am a fan of overbuilt myself, i would go w/ the higher btu

will try to see what btu Wilson's suburban has
that is my only benchmark

[billwilson]

just found this

http://www.boatelectric.com/espsize2.htm

has specs for Hydronic and Airtronic

did not read all but appears that Hydronic REQUIRES engin running

for me, that would seem a bummer.....

[Greggd]

Bill ,
Usually the suburbans run at 15,000 to 40,000 BTU for the standard over the counter unit's .
They are bulkier but absolutely trouble free and very efficient at all altitudes . Good choice !
Greggde

[billwilson]

Originally Posted by Greggde

Bill ,
Usually the suburbans run at 15,000 to 40,000 BTU for the standard over the counter unit's .
They are bulkier but absolutely trouble free and very efficient at all altitudes . Good choice !
Greggde

looked at my suburban
did not see a model number
only 12v, 2.8 amp
no btu markings

[springer]

Originally Posted by billwilson

Cost and size difference on D2 vs D4??


now i am confused
Hydronic vs Airtronic

a quik look at mr. google leads me to beleive
the Hydronic requires fluid moving around

if a plug and play unit produces the same amt of hot air
why install the same unit that requires fluid exchange?

I'm looking to have both. The Hydronic (as a factory install) will provide engine preheat, as well as the hot water source for the van via flatplate. The Airtronic will provide interior heat.

I'm wanting to pull most of my energy from the fuel tank. I'm intending to use propane only for the cooktop, which would allow one stop fueling with topping off propane only occasionally. A furnace would suck the propane dry regularly.

I'm leaning toward the D-4 for quicker warmup for my interior heat. I don't know which hydronic Mercedes installs, and I'm not concerned about that.

Greg