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Old 05-12-2007, 11:16 AM   #31
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Why can't you use an espar hydronic diesel heater to heat the water when the van is stationary? I think that SMB could do this. I have set up a couple vans this way. When the engine is running then the engine heats the water, When the van is stationary then the Espar heats the water. Some expediton campers take this a step further and use hot water from this system for heat as well, like heated floors. My hot water system is not completed yet but I'm using a Isotherm dual coil marine hot water heater. It's 6 gallons. Engine coolant runs through one of the coils and the other is powered by an espar hydronic. I'm using an espar D5 for cabin heat and it works great but I've had to play around a little with the muffler setup to get it quiet enough to sleep.

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Old 05-12-2007, 02:00 PM   #32
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Seth asks; "Why can't you use an espar hydronic diesel heater to heat the water when the van is stationary?".

That's a good question!

I just don't have any experience with this whole matter to provide a real answer. Maybe I'll ask the Espar folks.
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Old 05-12-2007, 05:43 PM   #33
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Jeffrey, I allready know the answer to the question and it is yes. I can provide examples of many campers that are set up this way.The real question is will Sportsmobile do it for you? I think that they might. When I ordered my SMB I was really on the fence as to wether or not to get them them to build the interior. I asked about Espar furnace and hot water systems and was told that they did not conform to whatever RV manufacturer's organization that SMB uses. Thing's have changed since then. Here is an example of espar hot water use http://www.ki7xh.com/camper.htm also here http://www.ruf-inc.com/aatrec.htm and here http://www.unicatamericas.com/en/index2-Amerigo.html
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:36 PM   #34
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Thanks, Seth.

With this information and what I've learned so far, there always seems to be a connection between the Espar Hydronic and the engine coolant. I can't see why I would want or need that. I still have seen no system that simply used the Hydronic to heat a tank of water (or an on-demand system). I don't want any 'exchangers'. Simple and clean. Maybe I can rig it up myself, but there would likely be safety and legal issues.
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Old 05-12-2007, 07:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jage
Yes, and I'm wondering from everyone: Shower inside, outside, both or neither?

It looks like the inside shower wouldn't be that good for tall people is mainly why I'm wondering...
I'm getting both, and am anticipating showering outside most of the time, but the girlfriend will probably stay in the inside. Also if we're somewhere where we can't shower outside it will be nice to still have the option to clean up.
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Old 05-13-2007, 08:20 AM   #36
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Re: Suggestions on options you can't live without

After two years use we probably would get rear sofa bed rather than the dinette.
The 110V electric water heater is [for us] a waste of money and space, as We only use the sink for dish washing, and sponge bathing and We heat that water in the microwave.
The RV flush toilet could have been a porta potti, leaving the holding tank for gray water.
We went ALL ELECTRIC [with inverter] because our SMB is used primarily for towing and general transportation.
Camping away from trailer while touring, visiting or daytripping is an occasionally used secondary option and therein lies the only reason for the conversion.
We might consider carrying a portable propane stove or grill in the future for outdoor cooking on these occasions.
We'll probably be making changes in the near future.
If You go diesel be sure to have a Pyrometer and a Transmission temperature gauge installed if not standard.
Don't know much about diesel appliances but find the idea intriguing.
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Old 05-14-2007, 09:43 AM   #37
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Diesel Hot Water Options

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding of the Diesel options for hot water (other than propane, which you could also get).

FLAT PLATE FOR HOT WATER: This is what we have. It works very well (*caveat the cold weather freezing issue, see other user group and my pics on that*). Yes, if this is all you have, the engine must be running to a) heat the water and b) keep the water hot while you use it.

TIME TO HEAT UP: If you're _driving_, you can get reasonably hot water in ~5 minutes. If you idle (engine works less), then it's perhaps 7-9 minutes. You must keep the engine running though to keep the hot water going.

ESPAR HYDRONIC OPTION: This will allow one to heat the coolant without turning on the engine. This is the "silent running option" for those who want hot water in the morning. It has the following added advantages a) if you do lots of cold starts (like, below freezing), you can pre-heat with the hydronic which is much better for your engine and b) if it's freezing outside, you could run the hydronic every few hours to keep your flatplate from freezing (*again, reference freezing issue*).

Note: I do not have the hydronic; we don't do that many cold starts.

SHOWERING: We tried the interior SMB shower wand. We switched to a garden sprayer attachment (improved). However, in the end, we found that the Badgers had it the best: you use less than half the water, get a better shower experience, and don't get jets of scalding water if you use your hot water to fill a 5 liter MSR dromedary pouch with the sunshower attachment. Really. It's way better than the sink attachment. We hang it with two carabiners from the roof lift/lower handles. This works great. It also means that we don't have to have the engine running to have the hot shower.

Basic showering goes like this: take winter for example. We drive from the main ski area parking lot to the overnight lot: this takes about 5 min. When we get to the overnight lot, we leave the engine running while we fill the dromedary pouch with hot water from the sink. You can adjust the water temp while filling it so that you get a perfect water temp for your liking.

We then shut off the engine, so that it hasn't run for more than 10 min total. Now we hang the shower bladder, put up the shower, and that 5L of hot water is more than enough for two people if you get wet, soap up, then rinse off.

We have a liquid soap dispenser by the sink that is attached by the faucet with velcro. We have mating velcro up on one of the rails for the roof-bed, so we can move the liquid soap up there for showering. We fill it with Dr. Bronner's peppermint biodegradable castile soap, so that it works well for both washing and showering.

Way too much typing. Sorry.

PS- I really like the microwave water heating that Ken K mentioned. Never thought of that; should be pretty efficient.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:28 AM   #38
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I continue to learn more about this without having any experience. I asked the espar company and they wrote back:

"You can use the Hydronic heater to heat a tank of water, you just need to run the coolant through a heat exchanger mounted in the tank. You can not run plain water through the heater as there will be no rust inhibiting properties an the unit will begin to corrode. Espar does not distribute heat exchanging units, but please check www.arctic-fox.com if you require a supplier. You could also manufacture your own if this is an option."

I may change my opinion on an exchanger unit of some sort. In fact, by owning a Sportsmobile, I hope to travel to more outdoor locations in the winter (photography is my thing) than I used to. So, the hydronic/coolant/plate may be an advantage.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:04 PM   #39
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I just want to get this right. The Hydronic option would allow me to get hot water without having to run the van while I was using the hot water?
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeasBugs
I just want to get this right. The Hydronic option would allow me to get hot water without having to run the van while I was using the hot water?
Correct. It's an expensive way to get hot water (it's an expensive option), but will give you hot water without the engine running, as well as the other potential benefits (cold starts, reduced freezing potential of flatplate, etc.)
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