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Old 05-20-2015, 08:10 AM   #41
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Re: Change in Administration

AndyR - can you tell us how the terms of service will change and will you assert copyright ownership of posted text and pictures stored here?
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:16 AM   #42
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Re: Change in Administration

Andy or Jeff, Tapatalk images are not showing here as they have in the past. I'm getting an image code instead. Is it just me? Is this a result of the changeover?

Thanks
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:46 AM   #43
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Re: Change in Administration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANZAC
AndyR - can you tell us how the terms of service will change and will you assert copyright ownership of posted text and pictures stored here?
^^ That's a good question.

Having the forum be part of a business isn't necessarily a bad thing, IMO, if the enhanced features and good management that it offers provide value for the users relative to the amount of ads and/or "subscriptions" we have to accept.

Like many here, I'm on a number of forums, at least on a cursory basis, and they run the gamut of content and community. Unlike broader sites like, say, Ford Truck Enthusiasts, the SMB forum is always going to be essentially self-selecting, as it's a niche audience that owns or wants to own SMBs or similar campervans. I hope there is no plan to remove the SMB-focus of the site and make it a general campervan/class B forum, as I think that would really impact the community in a significant way. On a related note, I think we could broaden our audience a bit more within the SMB community if there wasn't such a focus on the 4x4 SMBs. Sometimes those of us with 2WD SMBs can feel like the ugly stepchild here :-)

It's like an apartment building where you have good neighbors. Just because the landlord changes doesn't mean your neighbors will change. But, if the landlord starts making bad policies or changing service, then your neighbors start to move out and the community changes. My assumption is that Andy didn't buy this forum to drive it into oblivion, as that would be against his business' best interests.

I do like that Andy seems to have focused on a niche audience (mostly) of RV and marine-oriented sites, as well as a few auto sites.

I work in PR and have done change management in the past, and while I think this all could have been handled a bit better and with better up-front transparency, at least it's good to see Andy and team engaging with all of us and answering questions.

While I totally appreciate Jage and all his work launching and maintaining this site, honestly most of the issues with the way this transition was handled really lay at his feet, not Andy's. I guess in the end Jage saw this as an asset to be monetized rather than a grassroots community essentially owned by all of us, which is the way I think most of us saw it and interacted with it.

But, in the end, it's about helping each other and keeping the community going. If it continues to meet our needs, and Andy's company makes some money in exchange for keeping it running, I'm good with that.

And finally, it sure would be nice to see SMB North, Texas and West actually engaging on this forum. This is a HUGE marketing asset for them (well, except for a few certain build threads ;-) and I've always been shocked that they basically ignore it officially.
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:05 AM   #44
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Re: Change in Administration

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianW
While I totally appreciate Jage and all his work launching and maintaining this site, honestly most of the issues with the way this transition was handled really lay at his feet, not Andy's. I guess in the end Jage saw this as an asset to be monetized rather than a grassroots community essentially owned by all of us, which is the way I think most of us saw it and interacted with it.
I don't know that's true - running a forum takes time and money. It is hard for an enthusiast to sustain that effort over a long time. If having ads on the site mean we get server space for more pictures and Jage doesn't have to go mess around and find space, then that's maybe an ok tradeoff.

I'm just asking for some transparency on how ownership of the content may change under the new management. (because, in the new world, our posts, discussions and pictures are "the product" that brings in ad revenue)
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:58 AM   #45
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Re: Change in Administration

Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Scotty
Andy or Jeff, Tapatalk images are not showing here as they have in the past. I'm getting an image code instead. Is it just me? Is this a result of the changeover?

Thanks
Are you still getting this issue? It could be your app is still viewing the old server IP and your DNS has not updated yet. We just tested on our end and couldn't reproduce this.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:42 AM   #46
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Re: Change in Administration

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianW
And finally, it sure would be nice to see SMB North, Texas and West actually engaging on this forum. This is a HUGE marketing asset for them (well, except for a few certain build threads ;-) and I've always been shocked that they basically ignore it officially.
I know when there were only a handful of people on the forum here, there was some representation from SMB but it was spotty.

"Social Media" is a fickle mistress for sure and many people don't know how to support SMB while offering constructive criticism. Its worth mentioning that I seem to remember SMB getting butt-hurt over valid, reasonable feedback also so that knife cuts both ways.

While I have had good success with Peter and the SMB team regarding post build customer service and support, I know many others that have had issues. Not made up, whiny issues but big multi-thousand dollar issues and there's no need to play them out on a public forum.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:56 AM   #47
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Re: Change in Administration

Good questions.

The sites that I work with all use the same terms of service and privacy policies. The gist of all the legalese is that the members who contribute content retain copyright ownership of what they submit. We are just granted a right to use the content on the website. What the forum owns is the rights to the content in a specific order (the discussions) so if some other site starts copying all of our discussions we will ask them to knock it off.

In some cases we'll take member submitted photos and use them around the site to make it look nicer. We've used the photos to make little banners to promote an internal feature or on that modal window that opens up trying to get people to signup for the email list. Although our terms don't state that we have to, I've contacted the folks who submitted the photos to make sure it's okay. To date none have said no.

Here is a link to the legal agreements for our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/mis ... k&page=tos
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/mis ... ge=privacy


BrianW - There is no plan to remove the SMB focus and evolve to a general class B forum. I think it's great that others doing their own builds feel welcome here though. I agree about SMB. It would be great if they participated. I've worked with various RV manufacturers regarding forums and understand why they are reluctant. Most of them simply don't understand what an important resource a forum can be to their brand. As you noted, they are probably also reluctant due to having to defend any potential issues. As time passes and the internet matures (which it has now) I suspect they will understand how special communities are like these and hopefully we can all work together to build the brand.

Keep the questions coming...
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:04 PM   #48
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Re: Change in Administration

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyR
We are just granted a right to use the content on the website.
I don't see the part limiting the use of the content to this website.. Looks more like you have the right to use it anywhere or anyhow you want. Am I wrong?

"By posting content on the Websites, you also grant, and warrant that you have the authority to grant, the Company a limited license to display, reproduce, modify, and use any text, image, video, music, or any other content that you post on the Websites."
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:14 PM   #49
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Re: Change in Administration

as with everyone else, id like to express a huge thank you to jage for starting this madness as well. its an addiction i never saw coming. youve built a great community here and an invaluable resource for the self builders. thank you so very very much!! maybe someday we will cross paths and i can say it in person, but until then, sad to see you step down, but completely understand. enjoy some free time for those of us that cant, lol.

really happy to see andy and staff making themselves so available. look forward to see how you improve the site (or not change anything at all )
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:41 PM   #50
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Re: Change in Administration

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyR
I don't see the part limiting the use of the content to this website.. Looks more like you have the right to use it anywhere or anyhow you want. Am I wrong?

"By posting content on the Websites, you also grant, and warrant that you have the authority to grant, the Company a limited license to display, reproduce, modify, and use any text, image, video, music, or any other content that you post on the Websites."
I highlighted the part that addresses your concern. It's not an unlimited license. If we took your photos and started to sell shirts, that wouldn't be cool and IMO would be illegal. If we wanted to use your image on shirts to sell we would contact you and ask for your approval and/or offer to pay you for the image.

Was there a specific case or example that was of concern?
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