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Old 02-05-2011, 08:39 AM   #21
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Re: Composting toilets

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveb
It's become a waste of money IMO and actually have it for insurance purposes (like if that even matters).
There are a couple of ways to interpret this comment.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:58 AM   #22
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Re: Composting toilets

If I remember correctly human waste has over 50 bad bugs in it. In 3rd world composting toilet design WHO recommends composting for 12 months before using (or dumping in the public woods??) on plants. Some sources say 6 months is enough to kill "most" of the bugs except for those in cyst from. Not clear on toilets you are looking at but 2 months cycle time appears short to make sure the waste is safe. Maybe you will bury it 6" down in the soil.

One gram of faeces can contain:
10,000,000 viruses
1,000,000 bacteria
1,000 parasite cysts
100 parasite eggs

Process it well and dispose of it well.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:15 AM   #23
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Re: Composting toilets

Quote:
Originally Posted by diana@tashjian.com
In the article on Jay's composting toilet there's a sentence: "Liquid waste and gray (i.e., post-wash) water is slowly dumped onto the exhaust for conversion into steam vapor."

I tried to rummage around online to find out what this was about and could find nothing about dumping the liquid onto the exhaust. Can someone point me to more info?

Thanks!
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Awhile back, I asked Jay about this on his ExPo thread. Shortly after that, the rear axle fell off the vehicle during a 5mph U-turn in San Jose and he's been doing other things while the vehicle gets rebuilt. He did make a brief post about a week ago promising to address this issue once he's back on the road.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:22 AM   #24
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Re: Composting toilets

So, how did Dave intend for this to be interpreted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveb
Please post back if you ever get a chance to sit down and see how it works.

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Old 02-07-2011, 12:43 PM   #25
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Re: Composting toilets

Our Pak-A-Potti 6000 (Sears brand) has a 3.2 gal. fresh water tank and 6.1 gal. black water tank.

Did a little research on the web. Found a NASA related paper:

~2L per day avg. liquid waste per person (ie: 0.5 gallons). Yes, a 6-pack of beer a day will increase that.
100-200gm per day avg. solid waste per person (say equivalent to 0.2L)

So urine and solids ....1.1 gal. per day for two people. 4 days 4.4 gal. of waste plus flush water used fills the 6.1 gal. black water waste tank. Indeed that is about the required emptying time for our Pak-A-Potti. I do try to empty it after 3 days of use because of the weight and ease of handling.

Assuming wife always uses the Pak-A-Potti and I just for solid waste we could stretch the emptying time (0.6 gal per day) to about 6-7 days with judicious use of the flushing fresh water in a remote location.

Porta-Potty's type products come in many different black water tank sizes (I have seen: 2.6g, 4.8g, 5.5g, 6.3g) so each owner would have to adjust their projected clean out time to the model they own. Can be a big difference.

So much for my data dump.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:09 PM   #26
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Re: Composting toilets

Len brings up excellent points re proper disposal of solid waste. Thanks. I'll look into that.

If the composting time isn't sufficient, possible alternatives would be to empty the solid waste container into a standard toilet (as done with the Porta Potti), or to empty it into a well-sealed trash bag for landfilling (as done with the Wag Bags). The advantage over Porta Potti in this situation is ability to empty the solid wastes less frequently, and hopefully have a cleaner and less smelly chore.

I shudder to think of cleaning a Porta Potti over the course of a month-plus long trip, but that's just me.

Re question on user testing, we should be able to report back on that in the Fall.

Re Jage's question about TP, the TP goes in the solid waste composting section. I would assume that septic-safe TP would be preferable.
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:15 PM   #27
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Re: Composting toilets

Jay Shapiro finally replied to the question regarding dripping the gray water (which for him includes liquid human waste) onto the exhaust and eliminating it by evaporation. Apparently the exhaust is stainless steel and there has been no oxidation/corrosion. He says the end of the drain is not odorless:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/t ... post988082

Diana: Jay's design is open source. All of the blueprints and specifications are available to view online at his site if you still want more information. You could likely P.M. him on the ExPo site.
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:13 AM   #28
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Re: Composting toilets

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveb
I have the standard porta pottie but have yet to use it because of the dumping issue.
Dave, what dumping issue is that?

We use ours all the time. It is no big deal to dump it. The newer P-P's with the rotating dump spout make the chore clean and easy. I usually rinse it twice with ~1/2 gallon of water each rinse. Then we add a little TST chemical before the first use. We've had no problems with our P-P in the 7 years we've had it - in fact we still have the original batteries in the electric flusher!

You have, you should use it. Beats going out in the middle of the night anytime.

Try filling it with some water and practice dumping it. You will see it is no big deal.

Mike
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Old 11-12-2011, 11:25 AM   #29
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Re: Composting toilets

"If I remember correctly human waste has over 50 bad bugs in it. In 3rd world composting toilet design WHO recommends composting for 12 months before using (or dumping in the public woods??) on plants. Some sources say 6 months is enough to kill "most" of the bugs except for those in cyst from. Not clear on toilets you are looking at but 2 months cycle time appears short to make sure the waste is safe. Maybe you will bury it 6" down in the soil."

Making waste safe quickly is just a question of heat and aerobic bacterial action, there is no direct correlation to time. Shmear a turd out thin in the desert sun and the heat and UV will render it safe in a a day or two. Bury it with a ton of liquid in a 'long-drop' style crapper for obligatory anaerobic digestion and it will take for ever to become safe. Remove most of the liquid, warm and aerate it appropriately in a holding tank, and it can be safe in weeks if not days.

Also, most of bacteria in soil are in the top six inches. If you are disposing of waste say in a cat hole on a hiking trip, make it shallow.

This is a fair beginners source: http://www.answers.com/topic/composting-toilet
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:15 PM   #30
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Re: Composting toilets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford_6L_E350
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveb
I have the standard porta pottie but have yet to use it because of the dumping issue.
Dave, what dumping issue is that?

We use ours all the time. It is no big deal to dump it. The newer P-P's with the rotating dump spout make the chore clean and easy. I usually rinse it twice with ~1/2 gallon of water each rinse. Then we add a little TST chemical before the first use. We've had no problems with our P-P in the 7 years we've had it - in fact we still have the original batteries in the electric flusher!

You have, you should use it. Beats going out in the middle of the night anytime.

Try filling it with some water and practice dumping it. You will see it is no big deal.

Mike
THEM THINGS SCARE ME MIKE. WHAT IF YOU MISS? Well I'm just kidding but it's finding a place to dump them. A few of the other stories about altitude bother me as well. Then there is my weight that is a factor. And you know, cleaning up after your family is one thing, but your buddies is another. If I could find a way to haul it on the back it might be worth looking into. I don't like using anything in the van if I can help it and carry a PETT tent system. The bags aren't the best solution but work...I just feel sorry for the guy who dumps the trash
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