Defensive Gear Placement

[lowracer]

"Gets nasty... Get down to business..."

Love it.

Dang, this too is illegal for me to even watch this video in CA.

Stand by while I purge memory and erase my hard drive again. I'm getting tired of agents of the CA DOJ breaking down my door to confiscate my PC. Please tag all future interesting gun videos with NSFCA - not suitable for California. Thanks.

[waltsb2002]

I was just thinking about this topic a week ago as we were remotely camped with the kids in our van, and no one else around.

Although I've done some tactical weapons training I currently don't own a gun, and have some hesitation to have one in the van with children around. However, I think it would probably be one of the most effective weapons and deterrents if really in a serious situation.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned knives. As a FMA practitioner I keep a few handy, a couple in the overhead shelf in the driver's area and one close by when sleeping.

I also have a large Mag Lite, and on our last trip I had a whip stowed under the passenger sear (didn't have to use it though). After reading this I'll add some pepper spray to the arsenal. I liked the projectile units!

Fortunately, like most people, we've never had any issues so far.

[daveb]

A fellow SMB owner has tested these and will be dealing for this company. I'm thinking about the pistol model. The C-2 is a pocket unit.

http://www.taser.com/products/consumers/Pages/C2.aspx

[dave_in_delaware]

Wow! Awesome thread, and a great topic. (Sorry for raising it from the dead).

While I'm no firearms expert (or a lawyer), I'd like to offer my 2¢ on a few things. Keep in mind I reside in Delaware, so your State's laws may be different than mine....

1. To be "safe" I would suggest that you know the Firearms laws in EVERY State you're going to be camping in, or driving through, or even thinking about getting close to. What's considered "concealed carry" and "open carry" will probably be totally different (and hence illegal) depending where you are. Sometimes a license to even have a gun is required. If you have a CCW permit in your State, some States may not honor it. The list goes on... Sources for these laws would be: 1-calling each Attorney General's Office in each State and getting the info from the authorities, 2-research the laws online yourself (most States have their Codes and Ordinances online now), 3-call the police departments in each State or County and ask them (keep in mind most LEO's don't even know their own laws on firearms, so be careful), 4-hit the library or an online book seller and get:
http://rvbookstore.com/shop/detail.aspx?m=2&p=367
I don't own this book, but you want to be sure of needing a license to have a firearm in that State, concealed vs. open carry, parked vs. transporting a firearm and how to do it legally, even what kind of ammo is legal (for example, hollow points are illegal in NJ). Some States prohibit civilian ownership of tazers, or knives of a certain blade length or operation (automatic), batons, etc.... A lot to know, that's for sure.

2. For me, when I carry my firearm for protection, it's always ready to be used immediately (condition 1). Why? Because a bad guy (or wild animal) is NOT going to wait a few seconds while I get my gun out of a safe, or load a mag and rack the slide, or whatever. If I'm drawing my weapon, it means I'm in fear for my life, and I'm going to be ready to pull the trigger. And if the situation is that bad and I HAVE to pull the trigger, I want a projectile that'll do the most damage (which is JHP for me). No rubber bullets. No non-lethal crap. Seconds (actually split seconds) count in a gun fight. If it takes you 15 seconds to get from where you are, to your gun, make it ready to fire, aim, and THEN pull the trigger, that's about 13 seconds too late. A bad guy already has the element of surprise, as does a predatory animal. Just something to think about.

3. As far as children go, I carry my firearm around them, too. They know not to touch it or draw attention to the fact that I have it (when we're out in public).... Teach your kids early about firearms, the safety rules for firearms, and proper handling - even if they're too young to shoot (I know my kids are too young). This may not even be for the purpose of teaching them how to shoot right now, but to take AWAY any curiosity they may have had about firearms. You know the old saying "curiosity killed the cat" right? Well, you don't want curiosity killing your child(ren). And I'm sure we've all read/heard news reports about a child who found a gun at their friend's house, and the typical outcome. By showing my children my firearm(s), and teaching them the safety rules, they now KNOW what to do and (more importantly) what NOT to do. And they also won't be overly curious about MY gun(s) that I keep for self and home defense.

4. A word about chemical sprays: be careful with these. If you get any on you, you'll be incapacitated along w/ your attacker. And they can "go off" accidentally. My Ex-wife had her's go off in her minivan (she kept it in the ashtray) after it got stuck on something when she was trying to grab it just to move it. Not pretty. And be sure carrying sprays is legal where you're going to be, too.

5. A knife would be a good "substitute" for a gun, or even a good "backup" to a gun. I carry a pocket folder clipped inside my pocket on my "weak" side. It's easy to access and fast to open w/ one hand, which is especially important if my "strong" hand is busy dealing w/ weapon retention against a bad guy.

6. On the actual original topic, as far as WHERE I'd keep my firearm, when I'm in my vehicle and driving, by "law" I have to keep it either on the passenger seat or on the dash. This is to keep the weapon OPEN (otherwise it is considered "concealed" and since I don't have a CCDW License, I could go to jail on felony charges - not good). Open carry is lawful here in DE. For others where Open Carry and/or Concealed Carry isn't a problem, ideally I'd keep it ON me somewhere (OWB or IWB holster). Fast and easy access is key, since you'll probably need your gun in a hurry.

If I'm storing it (or hiding it) in my vehicle somewhere, I'd consider one of these:
http://www.center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm

Basically, any kind of steel, lockable little safe would work:

http://www.galls.com/style.html?asso...og&style=SF061
http://www.galls.com/style.html?asso...og&style=SF064
http://www.galls.com/style.html?asso...og&style=SF062

You get the idea: basically anything that can be bolted down and locked and is made of steel.

Well, I've babbled on long enough.

Awesome thread though! I'm glad I'm not the only one who exercises my right to self defense, whether at home or in an RV somewhere.

[daveb]

I never carry mine in the open for a couple of reasons:

Most law enforcement agencies will hassle you and in Ca it can't be loaded anyway w/o a concealed weapons permit. You will probably have your weapon taken away and court costs might be more costly than the weapon itself.

A gun sitting in the open is a reason for you to be turned in by those who hate guns to begin with. I wouldn't put it past some jerks to even lie and state that you pointed it at them while driving, so mine stays hidden with the proper method needed (which I hate) and exposed when I am able to use it in a legal manor. I have had to use my weapon to defend myself in a home robbery and although I didn't have to discharge the weapon having a loaded weapon with direct access did save my life and almost ended another. Still I'm glad I didn't plug the guy but he did end up in prison for murder.
Dave

[BroncoHauler]

Originally Posted by daveb

I never carry mine in the open for a couple of reasons:

Most law enforcement agencies will hassle you and in Ca it can’t be loaded anyway w/o a concealed weapons permit. You will probably have your weapon taken away and court costs might be more costly than the weapon itself.

A gun sitting in the open is a reason for you to be turned in by those who hate guns to begin with. I wouldn’t put it past some jerks to even lie and state that you pointed it at them while driving, so mine stays hidden with the proper method needed (which I hate) and exposed when I am able to use it in a legal manor. I have had to use my weapon to defend myself in a home robbery and although I didn’t have to discharge the weapon having a loaded weapon with direct access did save my life and almost ended another. Still I’m glad I didn’t plug the guy but he did end up in prison for murder.
Dave

Funny how the stories about guns saving lives never seem to get media attention....


Herb

[lobo_q3a]

Originally Posted by Ed in Montana

Basically two large labradogs. We stash them behind the bench seat in the EB-50, and try to carry them unloaded.

Where did you find the Pelican cases big enough to conceal them? And running that cable thru?? OK...i'll stop. ;-)

seriously tho, this is all very good info. i too have wondered about camping too close to trouble and whether i should have a gun. i do have the fatty maglite in the driver side door pouch but i still wonder about carrying a gun (especially when out on BLM roads with all the drunk crazies who are indeed carrying) is the right thing to do.

pardon the graphic image but do you think bear spray would work on a drunk meth head who thinks your wife is hot and wants to borrow some money? sometimes i think i would like more protection.

[jage]

Well in the sense that even a drunk meth-head will recognize the threat of the gun, whereas the bear spray he might not (making actual use more likely).

"What's that you're pointing freaking PAM at me?"

Personally for that scenerio I'd go with a contact stun gun. The kind you can arc as a threat and that will leave the guy drooling in a pile as you drive off if the threat doesn't work.

With a gun you have to be prepared to shoot and if it's an appropriate self defense gun therefore (in my opinion) to kill, and then be able to defend that split second choice to the legal system.

[dave_in_delaware]

Originally Posted by jage

Well in the sense that even a drunk meth-head will recognize the threat of the gun, whereas the bear spray he might not....

Personally for that scenerio I'd go with a contact stun gun.

With a gun you have to be prepared to shoot ... to kill, and then be able to defend that split second choice to the legal system.

I believe most "bad guys" would recognize the sight of a gun... although if the druggie is on some serious dope, he may not stop attacking you after you shoot him once or twice. Just be prepared to keep shooting until the threat is neutralized.

I can't use a stun gun here in DE, because it's prohibited. So, I'm "forced" to protect myself w/ deadly force.

Be careful which words you use... The legal system will bury you if you tell the judge "I shot the guy to kill him." Because, IMHO, that's telling the judge it was premeditated murder on your part, not self defense. It's always "I was afraid for my life, so I used my gun to stop the threat." Period. NEVER say "to kill him" or your best friend will be Bubba in prison.

Just my 2¢. I'm not a lawyer, but I do carry my gun daily for protection, a right granted to me by the Delaware Constitution.

[BroncoHauler]

Originally Posted by dave_in_delaware

I believe most "bad guys" would recognize the sight of a gun... although if the druggie is on some serious dope, he may not stop attacking you after you shoot him once or twice. Just be prepared to keep shooting until the threat is neutralized.

I can't use a stun gun here in DE, because it's prohibited. So, I'm "forced" to protect myself w/ deadly force.

Be careful which words you use... The legal system will bury you if you tell the judge "I shot the guy to kill him." Because, IMHO, that's telling the judge it was premeditated murder on your part, not self defense. It's always "I was afraid for my life, so I used my gun to stop the threat." Period. NEVER say "to kill him" or your best friend will be Bubba in prison.

Just my 2¢. I'm not a lawyer, but I do carry my gun daily for protection, a right granted to me by the Delaware Constitution.

As far as I'm concerned, the only person qualified to shoot-to-disarm was Barnaby Jones (showing how old I am). He would consistantly shoot the bad guy in the upper gun arm from 30 yards away with a snub nose 38. Now that's shooting!

Even the cops (at least around here) will tell you and the courts, they shoot to kill. To do otherwise is giving someone a great chance to kill you. As bad as the courts can be, I'll take my chances with the court, rather than with the local emergency room or coroner.


Herb