Empty SMB weighs same as GVWR

[Ed in Montana]

Back in May I had an interesting discussion around the campfire about some of these issues with Bill Burke at his Heavy Truck 4WD Training. I mentioned that I didn't understand why there were 2WD SMBs and then a considerable jump (in cost) to 4WD SMBs. Why wasn't there a less costly 4WD conversion for those of us that don't need heavy duty off road road rock crawling capability, but just something to get around in in the winter? Bill Burke pointed out that anything less heavy duty for 4WD in such a heavy vehicle would not be safe, and probably wouldn't work well.

The discussion went on to what driving a heavy truck means in terms of gear and upgrades. For example, most extended body SMBs should be running E rated tires. I upgraded the standard Hankooks with D range BFG AT KOs when I purchased the beast in 2006, but I should have upgraded to E range. I didn't know that at that point in time. The Tire Rack online now shows that for a Ford Econoline 350 van only E range tires should be used, and that's before the added weight of an SMB conversion. Also if you are doing any off road travel at all, you should have 3 ply sidewalls and not 2 ply sidewalls.

The standard Ford bottle jack is insufficient for tire changing in off road situations, and you should supplement it with something heavier duty like the 3 ton bottle jack/jackstand combination that I have purchased following the class. A good hi lift jack is useful for getting unstuck, but is not specifically designed to help change tires and is dangerously unstable when the vehicle is lifted to a high level.

Winches and winchlines should be rated at least 1.5X the weight of the vehicle they are pulling. A 12,000lb rated winch is insufficient to extract a 10,000lb vehicle. Get at least a 16,000lb rated winch for a 10,000lb SMB. Tow straps specs are similar; use at least a >20,000lb rated towstrap to pull a 10,000lb vehicle.

Not all of theses issues are discussed or apparent to new owners of a heavy truck SMB.

[Kowboy]

This is a great thread ... and perhaps a deal-buster for me buyin' an SMB.

The legal ramifications can't be overlooked. Regardless of who's at fault in a collision, if the other party can prove your over GVWR and hire at least a second-year law student ... you lose. Everything. Everything you own ... everything you will EVER own ... and prob'ly everything your young'uns will ever own. It's a simple number. Jurors like simple numbers. I sold my 1-ton dually and bought a Peterbilt to tow my tow hauler for this very reason ... just to make sure the simple numbers were legal.

The engineerin' ramifications can't be overlooked neither. Constantly operatin' equipment at max load ain't good. Metal fatigue is cumulative. Lil' here ... lil' there ... then thangs start to break. Do some real wheelin' and the fatigue rises exponentially from the stress. My 4800 lb. rockcrawler has 1-ton runnin' gear. That's overkill. Overkill is REAL good.

In the maritime industry, weight is critical when you buy a new barge or ship. Extra weight means less cargo. Less cargo means less profit. Therefore, you can actu'ly refuse payment/delivery if the new vessel comes in at more than the designed weight. Wonder how that'd go over at SMB??

Just some deep thoughts from a shallow mind.

And a newbie question ... does anyone from SMB frequent this forum??

[SMBDAD]

Originally Posted by Kowboy

This is a great thread ... and perhaps a deal-buster for me buyin' an SMB.

The legal ramifications can't be overlooked. Regardless of who's at fault in a collision, if the other party can prove your over GVWR and hire at least a second-year law student ... you lose. Everything. Everything you own ... everything you will EVER own ... and prob'ly everything your young'uns will ever own. It's a simple number. Jurors like simple numbers. I sold my 1-ton dually and bought a Peterbilt to tow my tow hauler for this very reason ... just to make sure the simple numbers were legal.

Thats getting carried away. Sitting at a red light and some drunk ahole rear ends me. Oh your over GVWR so you must be at fault. Someone stated that your insurance would not cover as well. So if you drive drunk and get into an accident, your insurance will cover you. If you are over GVWR they wont! A policeman pulls you over and your drunk, you go to jail. A policeman pulls you over and your over GVWR, his discretion as to giving you a TICKET!

One other thing! IF there were such lawsuits and people were put in such positions as to defending themselves, you would think you would of heard of lawsuits against SMB already.

[myriadmyriad]

SMBDAD

Liability is a ugly subject. Lets not talk about it anymore.


P.S. My friend is working on a fatal SMB accident as we speak.

I wont say another word about it..


Jeff

[myriadmyriad]

Kowboy

SMBs are engineered well. They can take a fair amount of abuse.
I just meant people should be aware of their limitations. ( not drive them 100mph etc ).
All modified vehicles are a liability problem. Lifted trucks, jeeps etc. To have fun in life you have to take some risk....

Don't be afraid to buy a SMB.
They are very cool...


Jeff

[j.whitbread]

Originally Posted by myriadmyriad

SMBDAD

Liability is a ugly subject. Lets not talk about it anymore.


P.S. My friend is working on a fatal SMB accident as we speak.

I wont say another word about it..


Jeff

Personally, if a single word on this site showed up in a court of law over a fatal SMB accident being worked on by your friend, or if this thread was started for that reason, I would find that distasteful, misleading and unacceptable.

[vlamgat]

+ 1 to all.

Liability is an ugly word for sure and it also depends on which state you live before you jump to conclusions on this subject. The issue is to be proactive. SMB has to assume that their buyers are reasonable. If you overload you do so at your own risk. You do not have right to fill the van to its capacities and drive off into the sunset as there are labels all over it specifying what your load capacity and weight limitations are and will become. No more so than a pilot of an aircraft or the skipper of any boat including a dinghy.

But with that said the tort laws are designed by our political masters to fuel their coffers via the donations they receive from their supporters on the bench. So if you feign ignorance there are those willing to pounce. And the deepest pocket will pay whoever is at fault - at least in most states. But with that said you have the same issues just talking on a cell phone or operating a cd while driving. Hardly a reason I would suggest that any of us would turn our phones off or delete a cd/radio option from our vehicle. We take these "chances" every day and just as we all talk on the phone at some time or change cd's so operating an SMB within 10% of its GVWR is hardly a risk. All of course IMO but I find it hard to thresh my own logic.

[saline]

Per the SMB provided sheet in our 04' SMB PSD 4x4 EB-50 our GVWR is 9,990lbs. On our last major trip we were 10,800lbs fully loaded. Not a whole lot over GVWR but still over none the less. It was heavy for sure but still handled fine.

On another note regarding liability etc. It made me think of all the times we've overload our E-450 ambulances. When we have a major trauma or serious medical call we sometimes have up to 4 medics/EMT's in back, plus the patient. Add in the driver and all the fire gear, I am sure that we are well over our GVWR, going code 3 through the city none the less.
With no seatbelts on anyone but the pt. in back and the driver either.........

It doesn't make it right for sure, but GVWR is is pushed more often than you would think.

Edit: I always thought it odd that dinghy is spelled that way.

[SMBDAD]

So I have been researching the drawbacks of having a vehicle over 10,000lb GVWR. The only drawback I could come up with is the towing. Can anyone else tell me what other drawbacks there would be. There are no license retrictions applied, as the SMB is usually changed to a Motorhome/ recreactional vehicle.

[j.whitbread]

Originally Posted by saline

It made me think of all the times we've overload our E-450 ambulances.

Were they dually E450's?